Interesting Opinion

Originally Posted by mototech

we will have to agree to disagree i think tailgating is pointless and very dangerous on the road as unexpected hazards can appear and if the person behind is to close then! only one thing is going to happen.

I am not condoning tailgating, just pointing out that it is only if things go ‘wrong’ and especially if the ‘gater isn’t paying attention is it actually ‘dangerous’ … there is no harm at all in being close to another vehicle … lets face F1 cars don’t exactly abide by the 2 second rule and not many of them ‘shunt’ the person in front and they are changing speed al the time!!!!!

What is the difference between a pair of F1 cars 5” apart approaching a corner and braking appropriately and a small child running out and 2 raod drivers acting accordingly??? … (all other things being equal).

To reiterate, I am not condoning tailgating, but its not tailgating itself that is dangerous ...

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

I am not condoning tailgating, just pointing out that it is only if things go ‘wrong’ and especially if the ‘gater isn’t paying attention is it actually ‘dangerous’ … there is no harm at all in being close to another vehicle … lets face F1 cars don’t exactly abide by the 2 second rule and not many of them ‘shunt’ the person in front and they are changing speed al the time!!!!!

What is the difference between a pair of F1 cars 5” apart approaching a corner and braking appropriately and a small child running out and 2 raod drivers acting accordingly??? … (all other things being equal).

To reiterate, I am not condoning tailgating, but its not tailgating itself that is dangerous ...

Seriously how can you possibly compare F1 drivers to the majority of numpties who drive cages around our streets, on a track things are very different i,e everyone knows where the corners are and when people are going to be braking etc, F1 drivers and racing drivers as a whole have a much better ability and concentration level than job blogs.
I was behind a lady i car the other day and she was right up the **** of a bike in front if the guy had applied the brakes alittle swiftly for whatever reason she would have squshed him like a bug! how can this be safe? after a mile or so he showed her his lights and she got the message and backed off. job done sometimes the cage drivers just need to be woken up sometimes.

Reaction times. I saw a study on tennis players a while back, was really interesting. Keen amateur tennis player could tell if a serve was headed for his back hand or forehand just as the ball was crossing the net. Meanwhile a professional tennis player could tell this just before the ball hit the raquet - the professional didn't have any faster reaction times (tested seperately and found to be near identical), he just better read the clues of behaviour. The same is going to be for F1 drivers

I see where you're going Blue, true tailgating is not dangerous until something unexpected happens. Trouble is exactly that, the unexpected does happen, and it happens far more than we expect, someone will always need to slow down for something and some tailgate distances just don't allow for reaction time - F1 drivers can do it because they know exactly when the car in front is going to brake because they've read all the signs before they've even pushed the pedal (plus a track is more predictable) - us mere mortals have very little clue what the car in front is likely to do and we need to maintain a safe distance to cover every eventuality.

I see your argument and I know you're not condoning tailgating but I just don't think it's a terribly sound argument Until computers drive our cars for us, then radar guided cruise control can happily keep everyone at 2" distance all day long (as Mercedes have already demonstrated).

I think Blue is correct, I've seen film of develoments being made to allow cars to tailgate at about 3ft. Lots of technology going in to ensure that when the one in front slows all the following slow down too. But in the real world it's a pipe dream.

I think we can all agree that speeding up isn't the answer, your bound to end up going 100 mph with nobby still there.

I did say “all other things being equal” fact is all other things are not equal on the road!!! therefore why tailgating is bad and if I get a tailgater I shake them off ASAP as I don’t want to run the risk of them to shunting me if something happens!!!

The ‘tailgating itself isn’t dangerous’ thing I was pointing out should only be take at its most literal level … a bit like the ‘speed kills’ argument … so lets wrap this one up there, I am not defending tailgating, its stupid!!

Its a wrap

Got bored, did some maths

80MPH (lets call this a typical, if slightly naughty motorway speed) is 117 feet per second.
An incandescent bulb (not a LED) takes about a tenth of a second to reach full intensity, I'll pluck a figure from the air and say it only takes a twentieth of a second to reach a brightness that we'd notice as deserving of attention. In a twentieth of a second we've travelled 5'11"

So the car ahead is braking heavily and before their brake lights have even illuminated, we've travelled nearly six feet, we've then got to contend with human reaction times, movement times (even if left foot was covering the brake), brake engagement times (brakes are a mechanical system, there's a delay in their engagement as the components move), and after all that, so long as we can slow as quickly or quicker than the car in front we're ok.

Without wanting to sound like Mr Highway Code or IAM, safe distances are suprising (though i'll concede the Highway Code listed distances must be for old duffers with drum brakes).

EDIT: Damn, posted before realising it had been put to bed - ignore me! Not wanting to start a flame

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

...

You are ignoring the fact that unless the person in front is just slamming on the brakes for no good reason, that they should both be reacting to the same stimuli on the road in the same manner … therefore it has nothing to do with the brake lights at all … again, a pair of F1 cars are not relying on seeing brake lights, they just know they are coming to a corner and brake accordingly … a small child steps out, cars brake accordingly … everything else being equal, they stop at the same points respectively ..

So, that stuff you mention is all well and good if the person behind is myopically reacting to brake lights rather than reading the road for themselves … this is why F1 cars can be in close proximity as they are not looking solely at the car in front, they are looking at the track!!! Especially at them speeds and braking performance, they could never run that close if they were only reacting to the car in front - they may be superhuman, but they still can't react THAT fast!!

Originally Posted by MiniMatt

Got bored, did some maths

80MPH (lets call this a typical, if slightly naughty motorway speed) is 117 feet per second.
An incandescent bulb (not a LED) takes about a tenth of a second to reach full intensity, I'll pluck a figure from the air and say it only takes a twentieth of a second to reach a brightness that we'd notice as deserving of attention. In a twentieth of a second we've travelled 5'11"

So the car ahead is braking heavily and before their brake lights have even illuminated, we've travelled nearly six feet, we've then got to contend with human reaction times, movement times (even if left foot was covering the brake), brake engagement times (brakes are a mechanical system, there's a delay in their engagement as the components move), and after all that, so long as we can slow as quickly or quicker than the car in front we're ok.

Without wanting to sound like Mr Highway Code or IAM, safe distances are suprising (though i'll concede the Highway Code listed distances must be for old duffers with drum brakes).

EDIT: Damn, posted before realising it had been put to bed - ignore me! Not wanting to start a flame

Ahh man look you lit the flame again!

There are times when brake light flashing is the safest thing you can do IMO, particularly when it's another bike, rather than another car tailgating you. Say you are in the outside lane and the inside lane is rammed with cars, nowhere safe to pull into. Your slowing down in the outside lane will definately wind them up, and if they are a bike, may tempt them to over/under take you within your lane, whereas a quick flash of brake lights (without any real braking) will at least communicate to the ones who are merely inattentive (rather than aggressive ****s) that they are following a bit close and they may drop back. I've even given a "you're too close" hand signal and had cars/vans drop back before now. With a bike, I'll usually move to the far right of the lane and wave them by. If they're in that much of a rush, they can go past me. Of course, if it's safe to do so, I just pull into the slower lane as you described.