2011...all cars to have permanent lights on

Originally Posted by Daimo

Quite a noticable difference wouldn't you say???

Er yes, the Leon was in a lit car park and the Corsa was outside at night!!!

Poor obs Daimo.

I'll get my coat.

someone will be here with a petition in a minute
Have ANY of them ever worked?

(does seem a ****ty idea to me, how about we remove the furniture by the roads first, or remove lorries by installing a decent rail network)

some very interesting posts here,and I cant say ,that I have much more to add,that has not already been said.Nice to see peoples different views and yes sides and dipped do look slightly different.But is there anough difference ,when faced with Mr/Mrs cage driver with screaming kids,phone stuck to one ear,while trying to look at the sat nav.?
Dont think so.

it's nothing a small hammer wouldn't fix

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

sorry, but that's a load. the ONLY way you could do that would be to slow to a crawl past every junction that joins the road you're on if a car is waiting to pull out, just in case it does. you can never avoid accidents completely, there will always be times when no matter how good your reactions or planning are you simply cannot prevent something happening.

i'm not saying that this is a carte blanche to ride like an idiot or not take precautions like covering the brake or positioning yourself so you have an escape route, but that if you think that you can avoid having an accident completely you're deluding yourself.

of course we take a risk riding bikes, but surely there is no reason to make the lives of bikers, cyclists and pedestrians even more hazardous than it already is, especially when the rewards for car drivers are so small?

That's pretty much my POV. People who ride assuming all other road users are going to see them/give way automatically are insane and when they constantly have accidents as a result, I don't have a huge amount of sympathy. At the same time, you cannot always avoid accidents. I had an off on a roundabout due to another vehicle and I am convinced there was nothing I (nor any other rider could of done to avoid it). The chap's pulling out was timed (I'm sure not intentionally!) so it was too late to change direction/carry on round the roundabout. I wasn't going excessively fast (I had been at a complete standstill 15-20 foot earlier), Built up lane divider meant no escape route, I had no option but to hit the brakes on gravel or go over his bonnet. Only way to of avoid it that I could see would be to crawl along at literally 5-10mph, which brings its own dangers (particularly on a bike where being overtaken is inherently dangerous).

My big objection to daytime running lights is that the benefit for cars will be incredibly slight compared to the increased danger it poses to bikes. Society needs to ask itself if it wants 2-3 times as many motorcyclists injured (and that's guesstimating conservatively, I imagine it'd probably be more) by this as the number of car drivers (and it will predominantly be single occupancy cars, before the pro-car lot start spouting about cars can carry 5 people, so therefore more people will be protected) who will be saved by it. We also need to consider the cost to the NHS in dealing with the people, the loss of productivity in our industry (esp. given the long periods of sickness typically associated with a bike crash compared to a car one) and the cost of the investigations by police when bikers invariably snuff it as a result of this stupid law.

Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf

sorry, but that's a load. the ONLY way you could do that would be to slow to a crawl past every junction that joins the road you're on if a car is waiting to pull out, just in case it does. you can never avoid accidents completely, there will always be times when no matter how good your reactions or planning are you simply cannot prevent something happening.

Its not about stopping at all. If you see a car at the junction, slow down..........

Seems to me that your expecting everyone to move out the way for you and adjust to what your doing, opposed to you being on a bike and being responsible to take avoiding action.

End of the day, if a car pulls out on you, who's going to get hurt.......

I ride with caution at the right areas. You want to go out for a hooning session without worries, go on a track day.....

Originally Posted by gid

some very interesting posts here,and I cant say ,that I have much more to add,that has not already been said.Nice to see peoples different views and yes sides and dipped do look slightly different.But is there anough difference ,when faced with Mr/Mrs cage driver with screaming kids,phone stuck to one ear,while trying to look at the sat nav.?
Dont think so.

A good point,

But then if thats the case, will they notice a bike with even high beam on, let alone a bike with dipped beam, in which case, your the biker, if you see some dappy bint like that, slow down and be prepared to take the appropriate action.

At least if she DOES pull out on you, your doing a slower speed and have far more chances to be less injured/survive.

We're bikers, we are at risk, we also go faster than cars, its our responsibility. Don't just "expect" everyone to move out the way/pay full attention to everything around. Yes people SHOULD be paying full attention, but in reality, it don't happen, so its down to you to protect yourself as much as possible.

Also, theres a lot more cars than bikes on the road, so again, it "shouldn't" be the way, but the government will always go with the masses, and they will favour cars over bikes, as its what the majority of the nation uses. Not bikes. Even though we are the ones more at risk.

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by Daimo

Its not about stopping at all. If you see a car at the junction, slow down..........

well duh, of course, i never said you should stop, or that you shouldn't be aware of the hazard and make adjustments to your riding in anticipation of something happening, just that in order to be certain of avoiding a collision should something happen you'd have to be going ridiculously slowly.

Originally Posted by Daimo

Seems to me that your expecting everyone to move out the way for you and adjust to what your doing, opposed to you being on a bike and being responsible to take avoiding action.

did you even read my reply? i said completely the opposite to this

Originally Posted by Daimo

End of the day, if a car pulls out on you, who's going to get hurt.......

and this is relevent how? by this logic if the magnitude of attention you devote to driving/riding is proportional to the chance of injury to yourself in a collision it's ok for me to not pay attention to motorcycles when i'm in the car because i'm less likely to be injured?

Originally Posted by Daimo

I ride with caution at the right areas. You want to go out for a hooning session without worries, go on a track day.....

i completely agree, however it was YOU who said that YOU ride in a manner to "ensure im going at a speed where things can be avoided"

this, obviously, is impossible, there will ALWAYS be situations where an accident is unavoidable, unless you slow down to a speed where you can stop within the distance where absolutely nothing could concievably cause an accident, so just in case that ped/dog/child decides to run across the road without looking you have to slow down to a speed where if you are still only 3m from him you can stop? of course not, that's stupid, but in order to avoid any chance of an accident that's what you'd have to do

sorry, but your argument doesn't hold water...

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this matter then as im not wasting all the time to put all those quotes in

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by Daimo

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this matter...

i agree that you disagree with me, you're still wrong though