Good dog trainer needed

Hiya Shell..... Cheryl has posted some sound advice there and is on the ball.

I know I`ve joked about it to you but you really must watch the Dog Whisperer... it`s all about you becoming the pack leader and once Samson recognises that his behaviour will improve. Samson is a lovely boy and he can behave, as Mike said earlier he was so well behaved on Boxing Day I was really impressed. I think that was due to him being "led" and feeling part of the pack.

Most dogs don`t want the responsibility of being the pack leader and are glad to hand over that responsibility to their owner.

I truly would start watching the Dog Whisperer and start putting his words into action... it really does make sense. Mikes dog Red was always well behaved in my opinion but since Mike has started applying some of the tips he`s learnt from that programme Red is even better than before.

Samson needs to be in a calm, submissive state before you do anything with him and he will pick up on your energy. If you`re feeling embarrassed and angry he`ll pick up on that so you must try to stay calm at all times and not put too much tension on his lead whilst walking.

Best of luck hun and if you really need a break from him I`m more than happy to take him for you tho I do have a cat.

Hi Shelly, just to let you know your not alone! I have two jack Russells, max and Charlie. Max is great with people and other dogs, a real soft character. Charlie is just the opposite, he will attack other dogs if they come naywhere near him or us. We walk them on the moors, which is right on our doorstep, so they are off the lead nearly all the time. We have to keep our eyes peeled for anyone else walking their dogs, and put Charlie on the lead straight away.

We did approach a dog trainer who came to see us at our home. She basically affirmed what other people have said, he doesnt know his place in the houshold, so he tries to protect you at every opportunity.

Ive posted the advice the trainer sent to us after her visit. I hope it might be of some help to you. Its a bit long winded, but its worth a read.

It has helped with Charlie, hes not perfect yet, but we have seen a marked improvemnt. it just takes time i guess.

Les.

Details:
Charlie has been neutered.
Diet: Pedigree small dog diet with minced tripe. Feed x2 daily.
Has already attended puppy classes
Second dog- Max (also Jack) 3 ½ yrs.
Dogs sleep in basket outside bedroom.

Brief description of behaviour problems:

• Apprehensive of visitors coming into house, can growl and bark at them.
• Growls, snarls at other dogs when out on walk.
• Charlie’s behaviour and anxiousness increases with other dog Max present.

Recommendations:
Ø When visitors arrive do not allow the dogs to ‘rush’ at the visitors, this automatically allows the dogs hierarchy over your visitors, you as their leader (queen and king) you say when they can go and greet your visitors.
Ø When you feel Charlie is relaxed with the visitors, then allow him to greet them, get the visitor to get Charlie to ‘sit’ for a treat or a ‘leave it’ or give him a toy reinforcing their hierarchy over him.
Ø Do not allow the dogs to jump up freely on the sofa, especially when you have visitors around, they need to learn the visitors automatically become kings and queens and they sit on the sofa with you. When you feel you would like a cuddle then invite the dogs up on the sofa and you decide when you’ve had enough and tell the dogs to get down. Ignore any grumbling and reinforce what you have asked them. Remember you can turn a negative into a positive, i.e. asking them to get off the sofa and then ‘sit’ you can them give them praise or a treat or a toy.
Ø Do not leave the dogs toys down on the floor all of the time, only queens and kings can play with the toys when they like, therefore you decide when playtime can occur and decide when it finishes. Again when you play tug of war with toys you need to win the toy 99% of the time, reinforcing your hierarchy over Charlie.
Ø What you have been doing with the dogs food is great, the only extra thing I would suggest is for you to ‘gesture eat’ over Charlie’s food bowl. This shows him that you have fully prepared it and as the king/queen fancy a nibble at his food first, he should not growl or show any change in behaviour but to wait patiently as he is the lowest pack member. (Below Max, which you have been reinforcing through feeding Max first).
Ø I would put the dogs out of the room when you both eat, its great that they don’t beg but they can still see and smell you and the food. As you are the pack leaders you demand that they leave your ‘quarters’ so to speak while you eat. You can then invite them in afterwards when you feel you’re ready for them to do so. Ignore any whining, only go in and praise dogs when there settled and quiet.
Ø I also feel that Charlie needs to develop his own personality and self confidence, as he’s used to being either with you both or with Max. When you’re in the house separate them, only for a minute or two initially and then gradually increase this time. You can give Charlie a chew or toy to have but ensure you ignore unwanted behaviour and only allow him to join you once he’s settled. Charlie needs to learn to ‘deal’ with situations by himself.
Ø Also separate the dogs from yourselves now and again just to show the dogs that you as the queen/king can do so. Ignore negative behaviour and when you’re ready go and praise dogs when they are settled. Only need to be short periods of time initially.
Ø Continue to practice the ‘Leave it’ command like you were doing with the toy, I feel this command could be used with Charlie when out on walks. Practice ‘leave it’ with treats/ his tea/ different toys/ a lamp post he might want to sniff etc.
Ø A key leadership skill I tell anyone with a dog showing unwanted behaviour, is to always, always go through a door before your dog. Either when entering or leaving the house, especially when they are excited to get out of the house, have the dogs on the lead, get them to ‘wait’ you go through the door and then invite them through to follow you.

All these little things reinforce to Charlie that you are both boss/leaders/king/queen and he does not need to protect you when visitors enter the house or when you’re out on walks.

Walks:
Ø Walk Charlie without Max as I really feel you cannot improve Charlie’s behaviour with Max there. Charlie definitely feels the need to protect Max and I fear that Charlie’s behaviour will rub off on Max and he will copy, as dogs are pack animals. I know this will be difficult for you initially but feel it will pay off with Charlie’s behaviour in the long run. Charlie needs to learn to ‘deal’ with situations by himself.
Ø When Charlie pulls towards another dog or growls/snarls or changes his behaviour in any way negatively towards another dog use ‘leave it’ or ‘ah’ and give a sharp check on his collar. I felt when I did this it really did work and Charlie became quite submissive, he knew I really ment it and this is the demeanour you both need to have with Charlie. That any form of aggression is not acceptable. As soon as you so even see the slightest positive change, which could be Charlie choosing to not look at the dog, or to walk on, praise him, not over the top but show him how you’re pleased with his positive behaviour.
Ø When the opportunity arises with another dog, slowly move Charlie closer to the dog, going into Charlie’s ‘comfort zone’ as you both mentioned. This can be you and Charlie circling the other dog so that Charlie is on the outside and does not feel cornered by the dog.
Ø Also take Charlie to different social environments/situations such as Broughton park, but initially only when it’s very quiet and slowly build it up not to overwhelm Charlie.
It will take time for Charlie to change his ‘habit’ as acting a certain way has been the norm to him. So work hard and don’t give into him, as I saw how very cute he is!!

I hope all this makes sense, as I know I do talk ‘dog’ talk a lot! If you would like me to go over anything my contact number is at the bottom, don’t hesitate to contact me!
I know you love Max and Charlie very ,much but all these things can help Charlie in becoming a much more settled, happier dog within your family.

Helen Evans
Wagtail UK Limited.

07813215123

[gruntygiggles]

Hi again,

The response Learningcurve posted is almost spot on. There are a few things that I would advise differently on though. One of them is what to do with the dogs when you are eating. It is true that you should not allow the dogs to be near you when you are eating, but it is incredibly important here that you do not shut the dogs out of the room you are in. Instead, you must demand through body language and authority that they leave that space and coose to go elsewhere.

This is a very strong way to reassert your position. It may take time, but Stretchie and I have two eight month old puppies, one of them is a jack russell and they learned this in a matter of days.

When you sit down to eat, if the dogs come close, just stand up and walk tall towards them. Don't look at or talk to them, just walk towards them, expecting them to back up. You can use the palm of your hand facing them and click your fingers to back this up if you want. The important thing is that when the dogs try to move around you (being JR's I'm sure they will) use your feet to move to the side and block their forward movement. Stick with it. After a few failed attempts to stay where they are or move past you, they will concede and leave the area. Anyone in the room needs to do this if the dogs try it from another angle.

Stick with it and it will get better. Also, I emailed shelleywoozle a chapter from my client info pack about dog to dog introduction. Your JR needs to be walked alone for a while, kept on a lead where there are dogs around and as well as using the lead to "check" him when he fixates on another dog, you can use your leg agaist his side....just to get his attention back on you. You don't want him to feel able to walk away from the dog, you need to keep him there and repeat the corrections until he relaxes and focuses on you. He should show you that he is listening to you and waiting to follow you.

You need to socialise him with other dogs as much as you can and my chapter on how to do this is very comprehensive and will ensure that there are no conforntations or risks of injury to dogs or handlers when doing this. It allows him to learn for himself how to behave with, approach and interact with other dogs.

[gruntygiggles]

Another point is allowing charlie to "circle" other dogs. This is bad im my opinion. It may make him feel more comfortable, but only because it is putting him in the position of literally running rings around the other dog. He needs to be put in the position of being submissive to other dogs and circling like this will make him feel like he has ownership of the other dog.

It will work to calm him down, but could eventually make him a more dominant dog and this is not something to be encouraged. This is very much about how dogs naturally communicate with one another.

I'm not saying the trainer wasn't good, she absolutely is, but the few points I am picking up on are really important ones and I would not want you to encourage the wrong state of mind in Charlie.

Also......sorry, keep going on i know, but. You do need to work with both of them together when you see improvements in Charlie and you can have another handler. The problem with two or more dogs wher one shows more aggression or anxiety is usually down to an instigator.

I can't say for definite, but I would imagine that your othet JR is instigating the behavior in some way. Any small signs of anxiety or excited energy (even if it's positive) from the other dog will make Charlies energy escalate and at the moment, it is escalating in a negative way, so you need to correct the other dogs behavior too.

Hope you don't mind me posting all this.

Yep, i would agree with everything said above.

The walking separatey probably made the biggest difference of all, as Charlie was trying to protect Max, and us from other dogs.

I have to say that we didnt actually put them in another room during meals either. As mentioned above, the verbal commands and your body language should be enough.

Charlie isnt perfect yet by any means, but he is much better when people come to the house, and once the initial approach has been made when out on walks, he is much more tolerant of other dogs, wheras before he used to try and rip their heads off!

Im pretty sure though that max doesnt instigate the confrontations, as Charlie was usually off after another dog even if max wasnt in the vicinity. Also max is a very placid dog anyway. He knows exactly how to meet and greet other dogs, and has done from when we got him as a puppy.

Thanks for the bits you have picked up on though. Im sure you are right about the circling thing too. Thats one of the things we werent sure about in the report!

Thanks,
Les

[gruntygiggles]

Originally Posted by Learningcurve

Yep, i would agree with everything said above.

The walking separatey probably made the biggest difference of all, as Charlie was trying to protect Max, and us from other dogs.

I have to say that we didnt actually put them in another room during meals either. As mentioned above, the verbal commands and your body language should be enough.

Charlie isnt perfect yet by any means, but he is much better when people come to the house, and once the initial approach has been made when out on walks, he is much more tolerant of other dogs, wheras before he used to try and rip their heads off!

Im pretty sure though that max doesnt instigate the confrontations, as Charlie was usually off after another dog even if max wasnt in the vicinity. Also max is a very placid dog anyway. He knows exactly how to meet and greet other dogs, and has done from when we got him as a puppy.

Thanks for the bits you have picked up on though. Im sure you are right about the circling thing too. Thats one of the things we werent sure about in the report!

Thanks,
Les

You are very welcome and as for Max.....lucky you. Dogs that are naturally like that are fantastic and I'm sure he'll help Charlie alot with work on the lead.

Cheryl x

What do you think, little cuties or what?

First one is max, second is Charlie.

[dizzyblonde]

Learning curve...

If I may, We have an instigator in our house. Honey was first in and is 9 now. Bob came two years ago, and Honey was and always will be boss. The amount of times we have had pretty much a pit bull fight here is ridiculous.....I've read snippets of your post, and one point I picked up on was feeding the more dominant after the lower dog. We couldn't do this as Honey was so dominant she would stand over Bob and growl while he tried to eat. One day I just happened to shut the dog gate, feed Bob, then go out of the gate and feed Honey as soon as Bob had his head in the bowl. This worked a treat as she couldn't notice what Bob was doing for filling herself , and has kind of balanced the roles more. I haven't had a fight in well over 8 months now.
Its the simplest of things that get results.
Shell...keep at him hunni, be stronger. And if you have to keep him on a lead for a while until you are more confident with him again so be it. As giggles has said hes a gun dog, I found with my old springer that the working side of his genes(he was bred from farm stock) were overbearing for me, he needed someone stronger headed than myself, and he ended up being sent to an ex police dog handler. BUT I gave up on him a long time before you have, and I really urge you to keep on going with him, you'll beat him at his own game before long, its a matter of finding what clicks. Seeking the advice folk have given here is a step in the right direction.

Ok thanks for that. We have never had a problem feeding them though. We feed both together in the same room, max's bowl goes down about two seconds ahead of Charlie's and they never fight or argue.

We have tried every combination of feeding, each one first, separately, feeding then taking it away, you pretend to eat from their bowls before they eat. Nothing makes any difference, they are both quite happy eating together. Whoever finishes first (it varies) waits for the other one to finish, then they go to each others bowl nice and sedately to see if they have left anything!

Only problem we have is Charlie's agression towards other dogs. With people, he's ok once he knows your friendly, and he and Max get on like a house on fire! They play together all day in the house and the garden.

bearing in mind how lucky we are that they are such great friends, we can forgive the little problem with Charlie's agression. We will just persevere and try to cure it.

Thanks again for the comments, every little helps, and sometimes a fresh pair of eyes and ears are a great help.

Shelly, dont give up on him, Im sure he has his good points too. None of us are perfect after all. hell, I'm 48 and I'm not even house trained yet!

Les

[gruntygiggles]

Here is a pic of mine and Stretchies four. Lab/rottie cross is Saffie and the Jack is Squirrel, both eight months old. The black and white collie is Stig and the brown and white is Hollie.