I need training...

does this problem stem from any particular incident(s) - for instance has a wet ride given rise to your problem - I think you mentioned you can ride your DRZ without fear - from my experience, an irrational fear can grow from a simple event and becomes magnified as it feeds on you fears - it can quite easily be caused by the choice (or no choice) of tyres fitted to the bike. Rubber is rubber as some would say but a simple change of rubber on the road can provoke a complete change in confidence and in how you and the bike perform. Likewise with how you have the suspension set - this problem does seem to be a "mental block" but addressing issues like tyres, suspension etc may help to ease your perceived fears. Please don't give up, and as one other member has posted, take professional advice, not just internet chat, as well intentioned as it may be. As a retired police motorcyclist I would clearly advocate "Roadcraft" as the most practical and safe way to improve your riding - however it is not enough to just read and try it - you must have professional help to hone your skills correctly.

[Mr Speirs]

Im not sure but I remember Specialone having a moment mid corner on the MESS rideout. Bit of gravel but enough to scare the shizzle outta him. To be fair he came across something that everyone on a normal road bike fears and made it out the other end with just a trouser change required.
Whether it stemmed from that or was already there and made it worse only specialone can say.

You looked fine to me mate to and from the AR, 2 up and with a puncure.

I did a track day on my SV last year at mallory, with a few guys from here. Was a fantastic day and a gave me so much confidence. Was wet/cold november day, despite oil, petrol and them cleaning the road for an hour. I started very slowly not overtaking a thing, by the end of the day i was overtaking 600's when ever i could sometimes 3 at a time on the brakes. Good way to learn what your bike can do, its far more capable than you think, well i my case anyhows.

Road training is what i wish to do, with the police from Tally Ho. A family friend (IAM instructor) told me to go there so i will be a some point.

Originally Posted by Berlin

Specialone,

Can you explain what you know about "Vanishing points"?

I think this is where the problem lies.

Once you've explained as much as you know about it, I'll post some pics and we'll aplly what you've written to them.

Cheers,
C

Right mate, as you took the time to post ill reply to the best of my understanding.
The vanishing point is where the two kerbs or edges of the road in front of you meet, the way i use this is, if when you are going along the vanishing point is going away from you then you can increase your speed.
But as if you are approaching the vanishing point ie, getting closer to it, then i would reduce my speed.

I have the roadcraft dvd so i topped up my info from that, but i have used this even before i passed my bike test when driving my car.

Hope this makes sense

Originally Posted by martin15s

does this problem stem from any particular incident(s) - for instance has a wet ride given rise to your problem - I think you mentioned you can ride your DRZ without fear - from my experience, an irrational fear can grow from a simple event and becomes magnified as it feeds on you fears - it can quite easily be caused by the choice (or no choice) of tyres fitted to the bike. Rubber is rubber as some would say but a simple change of rubber on the road can provoke a complete change in confidence and in how you and the bike perform. Likewise with how you have the suspension set - this problem does seem to be a "mental block" but addressing issues like tyres, suspension etc may help to ease your perceived fears. Please don't give up, and as one other member has posted, take professional advice, not just internet chat, as well intentioned as it may be. As a retired police motorcyclist I would clearly advocate "Roadcraft" as the most practical and safe way to improve your riding - however it is not enough to just read and try it - you must have professional help to hone your skills correctly.

It is more mental with me, but i still dont know how far my st will let me go before it says stop being a knob, so a steady track day based training session will help this i think.
But i have been thinking last night i will do some road based training as well, im not ignorant to think i know it all, i would no doubt benefit from expert tuition.
Answering your first point, i had my first off last year, up until then, i was making steady progress in terms of my ability, but that knocked me down a peg or two.

Originally Posted by Mr Speirs

Im not sure but I remember Specialone having a moment mid corner on the MESS rideout. Bit of gravel but enough to scare the shizzle outta him. To be fair he came across something that everyone on a normal road bike fears and made it out the other end with just a trouser change required.
Whether it stemmed from that or was already there and made it worse only specialone can say.

Some of this does stem from this but i had a few more 'incidents' around that time and it really got to me.
I feel more confident on my sprint than i did on my sv, its feels more planted.

Originally Posted by robh539

You looked fine to me mate to and from the AR, 2 up and with a puncure.

I did a track day on my SV last year at mallory, with a few guys from here. Was a fantastic day and a gave me so much confidence. Was wet/cold november day, despite oil, petrol and them cleaning the road for an hour. I started very slowly not overtaking a thing, by the end of the day i was overtaking 600's when ever i could sometimes 3 at a time on the brakes. Good way to learn what your bike can do, its far more capable than you think, well i my case anyhows.

Road training is what i wish to do, with the police from Tally Ho. A family friend (IAM instructor) told me to go there so i will be a some point.

Rob tbh, i am making myself sound really sh1te, im ok most of the time and will not be too far behind the average rider, but i want to improve and wont be happy until i do.
You have rode with me a few times and so has Ralph, he says the same as you, but im not ready to accept ok, i want better tbh and im too impatient to wait until i have 20k under my belt, id rather bite the bullit and get pro help.

Specialone,

You are not alone!! Im in the same boat, my riding is OK and I think I have pretty good road sense but I know it could be better, and it probably wouldnt take a trained eye very long to correct a few recurring errors and make a noticeable difference, and improvement, to my riding. I have also upgraded my bike and now I need to learn more about the limits of the bike and extend the limits of my riding.

When ive got the cash im going to go back to the guy i did my training with last year, we had a great rapport, and he wont stand on ceremony, he'll ask what i want, look at what im doing (wrong and hopefully the odd thing right ), tell me my ridings crap and hopefully give me a few pointers re observation and lines and hopefully that will improve my safety and my speed.

Ive thought about IAM but dont feel i need the formality of it, and whilst i intend to do a track day next year my riding is on the road and thats where i need to work on it.

Confidence is a problem for me too, Im trying to ride at a new level to match my bike, but dont really have the necessary level of experience to do that, and again, whilst im sure i will improve in the next 10000 miles, i need to improve immediately, if not sooner!!!

[Lissa]

Phil, try these guys.

http://www.warwickshire.gov.uk/web/c...257411002F0C3A

We've been out with them twice and it was an excellent day. well worth the £30.

[rictus01]

Sounds like you are in need of a couple of things, technique and confidence in the bikes ability with you on it.

For the first I'd recommend getting hold of the motorbike version of "Roadcraft", it gives a few very good ways of reading the road, which in practise allow you to comfortably predict what the way ahead is doing before most, learn them then go practise, you don't need speed, but once learnt, you find ample scope to employ it where you want.

The second, I'd agree a track is the safest environment to practise the extremes, I've known many benefit from just using the instructors on a normal trackday( just join the novice group),leading to show lines and follow to offer advice, and it's much cheaper than the schools, I'd try that first, if you find it helps, but you want more then one of the schols is the next step.

Cheers Mark.

I have the road craft dvd and i have absorbed a lot of that, but im a practical person, i need to do it and get right in my head if you know what i mean.
I might do the trackday first actually as like you say can always do the advanced training after if i feel the need.

BTW thanks lissa, i did look at the link and will bare that in mind.

Originally Posted by specialone

Right mate, as you took the time to post ill reply to the best of my understanding.
The vanishing point is where the two kerbs or edges of the road in front of you meet, the way i use this is, if when you are going along the vanishing point is going away from you then you can increase your speed.
But as if you are approaching the vanishing point ie, getting closer to it, then i would reduce my speed.

I have the roadcraft dvd so i topped up my info from that, but i have used this even before i passed my bike test when driving my car.

Hope this makes sense

Perfect definition.

So when you're riding along the road that you aren't comfortable with, where does this technique go wrong? If you're comfortable with this in the car and on larger roads, what happens on smaller roads?

Becasue using that should see you right. Are you diverting your attension to other things such as gravel, cow pats etc that is preventing you from watching the vanishing points?

C