Coming soon to a roadside near you.

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by Daimo

Its not really doing anyone any harm.

Apart from the riders, and friends and families thereof, who die preventable deaths as a result of misguided attempts at "education"... Are you really that short sighted?

There's plenty we can do as bikers, tell the people making decisions why they're making the wrong ones, it's extremely unlikely they're doing this simply to annoy riders, but because they don't understand them...

As for the IOW not getting it, that may well be the case, but I'm not so closed minded and stupid to not care what happens in the rest of the country

[Stu]

Originally Posted by Daimo

Where the hell you going with that? How is being pulled over for a quick chat in any way like them coming to your house and inviting themselves inside.

They are not looking for items that are wrong with your bike.

tbh, I really can't see the big issue with people whinging away about it.

What harm does it REALLY do to your life? None? So stop whinging.

How many have you have been stopped so far? Noen -stop whinging

Are you all just on a big moan, yes, so stop whinging.

I honestly do not see the difference between my peaceful enjoyment of riding my bike on the road and my peaceful enjoyment in my own home.
If I got stopped while I was rushing to get to work, or looking forward to getting home or to meet someone, I'd be very upset and not very receptive to any of their advice.

On the otherhand, if they set up a stall at Boxhill with a sign saying 'come and get a free high viz in exchange for a chat' that would be fine, but it probably wouldn't attract their target market.

[cbay]

I would like a free vest, jacket and bag.

Nah, not good in general.

If was was on a Sunday bimble on my own I'd be quite happy to stop and have a chat.

If I was late for work on a rainy Monday morning I'd be taking RH's advice and departing as quickly as possible with curt responses and no please and thank you's.

The police don't know what situation that rider is in, so they shouldn't be interrupting his day for no good reason.

The giving of good (questionable from a car driver) advice is not IMO a good enough reason, it might be if it would do any good, but the percentage of riders that would be receptive to that advice would be quite low. They will either not give a damn, won't be listening 'cos they are shi++ing themselves about the baffle, the plate, or the speed they were doing 5 minutes ago, or they'll already be advanced riders being told how to suck eggs by a car driving copper whose never sat astride a bike.

Originally Posted by cbay

I would like a free vest, jacket and bag.

+1 to that thought. Unless I'm busy. I took my bike to a job interview last week, would have been ape if I'd missed out for the sake of "do you know you are way more likely to die than a car driver?".

BTW Yes I do know that. That's because most people only drive to get somewhere, lots are nervous and really would rather not drive at all. I ride a bike because it feels like flying and in all honesty because I get a buzz off the danger of caning it a bit. And then tell myself off for being a pillock when I get home.

I have no illegal bits on my bike because it won't make it any better, for the most part I try not to put the wind up other road-users or ride like a complete sausage-jockey. Does any of this sound familiar, or am I in a club of one?

Oh, and can Red Herring or any other qualified person give us an insight into what a policeman would look for when deciding who to pull over? (Assuming that you can't pull everyone) Cars or bikes, I'm not fussy!

[Red Herring]

That's a fairly open question, it would depend on the purpose of the road check. Sticking with this thread it would seem you just have to be riding a bike, but if we accept they can't stop all the bikes then clearly riding around 100m behind a group of 10 other bikes is going to improve your chances of them being to busy when you get there.... but perhaps more seriously they would prioritize those that fit their perception of "most likely to need my advice". This is likely to include those riding quickly, wearing loud gear, having sports bikes or generally looking like they are out having fun. Contrary to common belief they don't need a reason to stop you, but they do need a reason to detain you, so going back to my earlier thread should you find yourself in a queue waiting to be "processed" you are well within your rights to ask why you can't ride off. They need to have a reasonable suspicion, then and there, that you are committing an offence to keep you waiting, they can't just line you up for a fishing expedition. Like I said, be polite but direct. If you say "Do you suspect I have committed an offence"? and the copper replies "no" they can't detain you. If they say "yes" simply ask "what is that suspicion based on"? Most coppers at this point will stall, (unless of course he can't hear you over your unbaffled Racefit). Their only option at that point is to either ask your details so they can check your documents, or to let you continue. If they do anything else they are on thin ice.

I'm not trying to tee you all up to be rebellious bikers, but it is important that the police do things properly. Sometimes they do get carried away with well intentioned enthusiasm and the odd reminder now and then does them no harm. Most coppers you meet in these road checks will be perfectly reasonable people (there's always the odd idiot) and provided you don't come across as Mr. Angry you're very unlikely to get a hard time. Oh and for the real enthusiastics amongst us if the police are stopping you based on the type of vehicle you are driving/riding, or because you fit a certain description that becomes a PACE road check, which opens up another whole can of worms for them......

[keith_d]

Hi RH,

Thanks for the information. Is there a reasonably comprehensible book on practical road policing? I'm not really interested in wading through masses of acts and case law but it would be interesting to know more about how our roads are policed and what guidelines the police operate under.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Keith.

Originally Posted by keith_d

Hi RH,

Thanks for the information. Is there a reasonably comprehensible book on practical road policing? I'm not really interested in wading through masses of acts and case law but it would be interesting to know more about how our roads are policed and what guidelines the police operate under.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Keith.

Maybe Red Herring can write it? He's got a nice, concise style. And some scant knowledge in the area!

Whereas I agree that all bikers, although specifically young newbies like meself, need education from experienced and qualified instructors, I think greater emphasis should be put on educating drivers of cars.

Although it is true that bikers make up a disproportionate amount of the road deaths each year compared to cars, the cause of the deaths and whose fault they are are disproportionately the fault of drivers (70% or around I believe).

So whilst at first glance it would make clear sense to educate the small group that contributes the higher amount of deaths, the larger group that cause a greater amount of deaths seems equally, if not more important to educate.

My real beef is with the oldies that are still on the road, some without taking any proper form of test. Yes, I may be young and a bit naive, but at least my eyes, ears and mind work all tickety-boo which is more than can be said for some of the greys out there who can barely pour a cuppa let alone navigate complex traffic lanes and spot bikers.

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by Triv650

Although it is true that bikers make up a disproportionate amount of the road deaths each year compared to cars, the cause of the deaths and whose fault they are are disproportionately the fault of drivers (70% or around I believe).

Not quite

In collisions that involve a car driver and a motorcyclist the car driver is solely to blame for the accident in roughly 70% of cases, however these tend to right of way violations in towns and cities where the low vehicle speeds mean they're not as likely to be fatal

The typical fatal bike crash is the rider who's riding along quite happily, enters a corner and realises they're going too fast, either hits the front brake of leans too far and goes off the road. In this case the rider is solely to blame.

These accidents account for the majority of biker fatalities

This means the best way to reduce the KSI stats is to target riders