How do you get to go faster?

Originally Posted by Jase22

I disagree with that comment in its entirity. Buying a bigger bike often makes people worse riders, and certainly won't make a crap rider good. Just look through the many posts of people who've gone from an SV650 to a 1000 and found they are in fact slower than on the 650. I also know people that are faster on 250 2-strokes than most people who ride IL4 1000cc superbikes on the road.

I agree completely; my comment was flippant and I was trying to say that if you don't care about risking jail, or being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear, the only way to get "faster" in terms of flat out terminal velocity (like the weekend-riding clowns who crash up in Brecon at 160mph and coof it) is to buy a faster bike. You won't ever be 'faster' than an SV650 is, unless you buy a faster bike. Of course, "faster" in the sense of outright top speed speed isn't particularly interesting, to me at least. Talking of how we define "faster"; I think there are at least 3 definitions:

1) Fastest top speed - flat out down a straight/empty motorway.
2) Fastest over a given section - A fast 'lap' of a track or road
3) Fastest A->B across country - Quick touring or long distance riding.

I think you can't improve 1 that much without boring out, or buying a 'faster' bike. I know from my own experiences that a fresh faced n00b can get an SV flat out on a road like the Fosseway. It's not very hard and the bike is far and away the biggest factor here. I think most people who would be considered 'fast riders' by the majority and who arguably have most outright skill would fall into category '2'. I think most couriers, police, IAM and ROSPA riders are quick (often moreso than '2' riders) in the sense of category '3', mods like bigger fuel tanks, comfier seats, bars, heated grips etc. make as big, if not bigger difference than sticky tyres, end cans, etc here. An ROSPA rider on a Pan with a bigger fuel tank will almost always wipe the floor with a rider who is much better than them round a track on a gixxer when going from one end of the country to the other.

As to 'better' bike, rather than 'faster'. Yep, totally: See my signature, I have opted for good suspension and tyres over an end can and power commander for road riding and would do so every time.

Road or track?

Honestly, I'm tending to find that the more times I go down a road nowadays the slower I get. First couple of times down my latest commute I was pretty quick; if anything I'm slower now as I've come to respect (or perhaps, who am I kidding, fear?) a couple of corners for their hidden dangers; Chelsea tractor always seems to pull out just round that next corner, next straight is Pheasant Alley, Farmer Giles tows a particularly spikey looking ploughing contraption round this bit.

Suppose the way to learn how to go faster is try something different, you either learn those things by luck or tuition or intuition. The classic is "look where you want to go" but I'm guessing you've figured that particular one out already On a track I seem to recall it being easier to think in terms of "where wasn't I fighting for grip", if the front wasn't fighting for grip on the entry to corner X then I guess we can try moving the braking marker a bit further back. Warning. Do not set your braking marker as a sheep on the infield at Darley Moor. Doesn't matter if it hasn't moved all damn weekend.

I think I ride slower on my 1000 than I ever did on my 650 but make it up in slow traffic. I don't enjoy group riding with fast riders. I prefer my own pace.

In my opinion it depends on your current level, but everybody has their own "limit", much like we all do when it comes to running on foot, training and practice can only take you so far.

For someone like Blue, who has obviously a lot of track experience, there is probably very little he can do to improve, and nothing he can do to substantially improve, as I'm sure he would freely admit. If he turned up at a new track he would slash his laptimes initially, but then the chunks he'd take off would quickly become tiny, and within a morning of constant lapping become nothing.

A track novice would improve significantly from whatever level they are at if they had a lot of track time, but even with training they too would plateau. Where that plateau is would depend on how talented they are. Bravery only comes in to it if you're prepared to stop trying to improve.

Some things cannot be taught in my opinion. Training and practice helps you improve consistency and reach your own limits, you could even fall off repeatedly trying to go faster, but falling off isn't actually an indication that you are at the limit of speed. A top-pro could "cruise" round a second off their ultimate pace all day long, whilst lesser riders would really struggle to match that, and mistakes would see them hit the deck.

It's the little things. Even if someone could explain in exquisite detail how they lap at the "ultimate limit", only a rider of their talent could match it, and if they tried to do it as per the instructions they'd fail. They'd be quick in their own right.

Practice, as they say, makes permanent- not perfect.

I think im not bad on the brakes
But need more confidence in the front end, and how far i can tip it over before graveity takes over.

I.E to do it safley, I think i need a track day to progress more in terms of a "lap time" overall speed.

Just too dangerous to get what I need above from the road, what with donkey drivers, uneven roads, gravel/diesel covered roads etc... Too much risk of binning it.

Least on a track day, if you do bin it, theres a medical team, a gravel trap, marshells to help out etc. Would rather nearly die there that being wrapped round a tree

Originally Posted by sinbad

A top-pro could "cruise" round a second off their ultimate pace all day long, whilst lesser riders would really struggle to match that, and mistakes would see them hit the deck.

Agreed. I was talking with an old boy who many moons ago was marshalling at the IoM TT. During a practice session they needed to call one of the riders back from a sighting lap. This chap, who was considered to be not far off race pace himself hopped on his (very quick, by the day's standards) bike and set off after the racer, who only had a 15 second head start. It took him about 10 minutes of riding to the very edge of his ability and when he finally caught up with the racer, he was amused and astonished in equal measure to find the racer concerned was "taking it easy", riding around with one hand on the bars, sat upright, waving at the crowd, etc.

Originally Posted by Jase22

Buying a bigger bike often makes people worse riders, and certainly won't make a crap rider good. Just look through the many posts of people who've gone from an SV650 to a 1000 and found they are in fact slower than on the 650.

I missed that post yesterday and could have saved myself time replying

However when you do a CSS day and think you are getting faster. Do you ever wonder how a riding coach can start his bike, set off, overtake you and signal to you with one hand whilst looking backwards, then they lap you.

Originally Posted by Blue_SV650S

So how is it done?

Further to this, what is the definition of 'quick'? How can we define this?

Quicker than your mates perhaps? But what if you have particularly fast (or slow) mates?

Buy a faster bike.