terminator

also why if they have time machine's don't they go back and properly kill miles dyson the guy who started it all and stop the cybernet thing the whole terminator plot makes no sense haha.

Originally Posted by Richie

Yes... I want your Cloths, your Boots, and your Motorcycle...!!!

Is there a Kim & Aggy version that I've missed?

Originally Posted by zsv650

also why if they have time machine's don't they go back and properly kill miles dyson the guy who started it all and stop the cybernet thing the whole terminator plot makes no sense haha.

Yeah, perhaps best not to over analyse. I mean, we're supposed to think the machines send Terminators back through time to various points to stop the resistance before it begins, but of course the paradox is that success in that purpose changes the reality of the time from which the Terminator is sent, to the extent that it need not be sent. The implication is that the world somehow changes around us, along with our minds and memories, when something in the past is "altered", hmmm.

I think it's best to assume that if time travel is possible, then nothing makes any difference. Like the past, the reality of the future is set in stone if someone can travel back from it. Just as you cannot time travel to visit your teenage self, introduce yourself and make yourself rich, unless you remember it happening and are currently rich as a result. Then, whether you like it or not, you will make that journey through time yourself in later years. Similarly, if it's your intention to visit yourself and throw yourself a surprise 12th birthday party and give yourself a "sports almanac", nothing you can do will make it happen.

Kind of puts a downer on the whole Terminator series though.

[Skip]

Originally Posted by muffles

It depends what you like, it's the same difference between Alien and Aliens - horror/scary vs action. T1 is more horror/scary whereas T2 is more action. I can't pick one myself, depends which one I'm in the mood for

You have put into words what I was thinking there muffles so +1.

Both superb films

Originally Posted by sinbad

I think it's best to assume that if time travel is possible, then nothing makes any difference. Like the past, the reality of the future is set in stone if someone can travel back from it. Just as you cannot time travel to visit your teenage self, introduce yourself and make yourself rich, unless you remember it happening and are currently rich as a result. , nothing you can do will make it happen.
Kind of puts a downer on the whole Terminator series though.

Unless you believe in the theory that every decision made creates a new universe that forks off from the current one, try googling John Titor for more info.

Steve

Originally Posted by sinbad

T2, except for the kid who is really annoying with a whiney voice, not much in the way of acting skill and very easy to dislike, yet he's supposed to be the one you're rooting for.

Get a grip John!
Are we learning yet?

Originally Posted by startrek.steve

Unless you believe in the theory that every decision made creates a new universe that forks off from the current one, try googling John Titor for more info.

Steve

The Many Worlds theory.

In the Terminator example, if success leads to another "fork", then failure is the way it always happened and always will have happened on the existing "fork" - the "fork" which prompted you to go to such lengths in the first place. There will always be a John Connor that grows up to be a resistance leader fighting the machines.

Another interesting question is at what point does a "change" occur? When you kill Miles Dyson? When you decide to? When you send a Terminator back in time? When it arrives? When as a kid you realise your destiny is to send a Terminator back in time? When you were conceived? etc etc

If in your future you're going to do something in "the past" then it's already done, even if it's in your future. If the past is always there to be travelled to, so too must the future exist, because someone can travel from it.

I remember reading about Titor a few years ago. I'm as convinced he's a fraud now as I was then. Many worlds is convenient, because it means no proof need be presented, ever. "Well there was a civil war in my universe, I must have changed something". Oh right.


Edit: Yeah he's annoying no? There's a really cheesily read little speech about us having no future but what we make for ourselves too iirc. I forget the actual line. Probably the Miles Dyson bit is his worst though Or perhaps him teaching Arnie the lingo of the streets, but somehow coming across as a bit of a middle class pretender.

Skynet only exists because it sent the things needed for itself to be built back in time. So does that mean it's an anomaly, or that it's inevitable it'll be built? Because how did it come into existence the first time, in order to send the things needed for itself to be built the first time? Basically, arm + processor = Skynet = arm + processor = Skynet, looping forever. Likewise, the Resistance must know that they have to send Terminators back to protect the Connors because they know how history went and have to ensure it happens the way they've been told it did. Hurts my head thinking about it.

I remember watching T2 with several younger friends. They didn't flinch when the T-1000 cuts that cop open at the beginning, but they all said 'ewww' when he then crouches down to pick up his gun because 'you saw his butt!!!'

Originally Posted by metalangel

Skynet only exists because it sent the things needed for itself to be built back in time. So does that mean it's an anomaly, or that it's inevitable it'll be built? Because how did it come into existence the first time, in order to send the things needed for itself to be built the first time? Basically, arm + processor = Skynet = arm + processor = Skynet, looping forever. Likewise, the Resistance must know that they have to send Terminators back to protect the Connors because they know how history went and have to ensure it happens the way they've been told it did. Hurts my head thinking about it.

Maybe if you think about time slightly differently then it works - time might not exist from some 'viewpoints' so from another viewpoint it might just be arm + processor = Skynet. Sounds a bit odd but it's only because we think of time as a linear thing that this question comes up, I reckon.

I suppose, you could think that Skynet is from an alternate timeline and can't control where its stuff gets sent back in time to... so our timeline would never have had Skynet but another one did... and their Terminator arrived in our timeline hence Skynet was able to be developed.