Just took a Gixxer for a test ride

Originally Posted by G

I didn't get the rest of your post sounded like nonsense to me to be honest... However, I see a stunning RSV-R everyday commuting on nottingham ring road without fail even in the snow... It is a thing of beauty, I want one, not seen any for that price though.

Wasnt none sense Simply, 600's sound faster because they rev higher so people get the impression they are going faster than what they are and vica versa for twins... heh, dont matter though.

RSV-R asin the older model, not the newer RSV-R (man why did they screw the naming thing up!?

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

The SV never had that urge or surge forward that the GSXR has. I guess its again down to the engine configuration thing again. twins just dont feel fast to ride. I never got that buzz from it. Thats something that you just cant represent on a dyno chart. I suspect it also says alot about me as a rider as well.

Feel is the operative word here.

The SV doesn't feel as fast because the reality is it isn't as fast, we are comparing with a bike with twice the peak BHP, and snapping the throttle open at 7k revs and closing it again before 7500, is not a real world scenario. It just demonstrates how the SV rider feels when he goes to do an overtake and finds he's in the wrong gear (riders fault not bikes).

What the dyno says is right, despite how it may feel, the bikes are near enough the same weight, and the dyno is measuring what is actually happening at the rear tyre, but you can't just consider one snap point in time and say that will feel the same in the real world. You need to measure again 5 seconds later, and 10 seconds later, and 15 seconds later.

If you look at 8k revs on the dyno, the 750 is putting out 80bhp, and the SV about 67. So whilst the point in time when you open the throttle at 7k may be an even match, the acceleration chart on the 750 curves skywards steeply and quickly, whereas on the SV it remains more linear, which it why it feels like it's much slower (because it is). A 1000 revs later the 750 has pulled away, and 300 yards later it's blown the SV into the dust. Trouble with that is you are now at double the speed limit.

The first instant that you open the throttle is what matters on an overtake though, so you have to do it in the correct gear for the bike, especially when it's a 600, not a 750. Jump on a Bandit 1250 and do it in whatever gear you like. That's why I can't accept it when 600 riders say their bike pulls like a train in any gear at any speed, and that they don't need revs, or are not actually aware what revs they are doing, because what feels like the "midrange" is 3k higher. Those tend to be riders who have never ridden anything bigger. They should test ride something like a 1250 to find out what "in any gear" really means.

[fastdruid]

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

Completely agree. I just dont like the narrow minded opinion that I come across from some peeps on here sometimes. They are happy to trott out the same cliched stereotypes about IL4 vs V twin engines yet the only bike they have ridden is the SV and they havent tried anything else*

*I'm not saying thats always the case just a recurring trend I have noticed

FWIW I've ridden[1] <deep breath> SV650, SV700, Firestorm, CBR6, CBR6 (race bike), CBR6RR (track bike), R6, Hornet6, ZX-6R, Thundercat, 748, VFR750, VFR800 Vtec, VFR400 (track bike), CBR4, RVF400, RVF400 (track bike), CBR250, FZR250, GSX250, CB500, CB500S, CD200, TDM850, TRX850 (race bike), FZR400, FZR400 (3tj), YZF400R Plus I'm sure some more I've forgotten.

I still stand by the sprots 600's are pointless in the real world unless speeding. Don't get me wrong, I loved the CBR6 for example but at *legal* round town speeds it is IMO lacking in comparison to the SV. 60+ and its a whole new game and the CBR6 et al quite frankly ****es all over the SV.

Druid

[1] Not including 125's and below.

[fastdruid]

Originally Posted by lukemillar

You don't ride to rev numbers - you keep the engine spinning at the speed where it is functioning best.

Absolutely, except on a 600 you *CANNOT* do that until you are doing 50+

Druid

Originally Posted by lukemillar

Me too.

Thing which bugs me is people keep on getting hung up on the revs thing! Why!? Does it matter if it says 4k rpm on the clock or 8k rpm? What if I stuck some tape over the clocks? Does that mean people are going to go to jelly and be unable to ride the bike anymore?

You don't ride to rev numbers - you keep the engine spinning at the speed where it is functioning best.

Correct, and whilst it looks like I'm getting hung up on revs, I'm not. You can't deny that sometimes SV riders get on an SS600 and feel like it lacks power, it happens too often, to too many people (me included), for them all to be talking out of their ar$e. I'm just trying to explain why that happens. It's because the SV rider hasn't adjusted his riding style accordingly, and if you taped over the rev counter, they probably would get used to the bike a whole lot quicker.

Lower the gearing? he he. Got to say that what druid is saying is exactly the reason I love my big capacity V twin. Itll potter around and pull hard from 2k rpm. I think for the road you cant do better than a flexible bigger capacity lower revving engine.

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Correct, and whilst it looks like I'm getting hung up on revs, I'm not. You can't deny that sometimes SV riders get on an SS600 and feel like it lacks power, it happens too often, to too many people (me included), for them all to be talking out of their ar$e. I'm just trying to explain why that happens. It's because the SV rider hasn't adjusted his riding style accordingly, and if you taped over the rev counter, they probably would get used to the bike a whole lot quicker.

Actually im not sure thats right (the last sentence) as the bike will sound like its revving like mental compared to the SV so they will think they are getting to the top end, Id say you need to be able to look down and think, "oh, not even 10k rpm yet..." Could be wrong though. he he

I think the reason people "get hung up on RPM" is that to keep a 600 on the same sort of power/force as a big capacity "road" bike you be using just 1st gear in town, where a big road bike could be in as high as 6th!

Originally Posted by fastdruid

I still stand by the sprots 600's are pointless in the real world unless speeding. Don't get me wrong, I loved the CBR6 for example but at *legal* round town speeds it is IMO lacking in comparison to the SV.

Round town, at 20mph, in second gear, if you need to get through a gap quickly, the SV is going to be quicker when you twist the throttle. In the open countryside, you can rag the nuts off the SV and say within three figure speeds. The SV is a great all round bike, if only the stock suspension was better.

Originally Posted by fastdruid

Absolutely, except on a 600 you *CANNOT* do that until you are doing 50+

Druid

Don't forget that in first gear your final drive ratio means the bike doesn't need anywhere near the same torque and power to get it moving.

Originally Posted by ThEGr33k

I think the reason people "get hung up on RPM" is that to keep a 600 on the same sort of power as a big capacity "road" bike you be using just 1st gear in town, where a big road bike could be in as high as 6th!

not sure that's a useful comparison. Speed is not the primary concern around town and I wouldn't ride in either 1st or 6th. 3rd on the Kwak is fine for 30mph - 6th gear even on a litre twin with it's infinite torque wouldn't feel safe and responsive to me.

[fastdruid]

I felt the CBR6 really came into its own on the track, as a std road legal bike it was sublime, was my 3rd fav bike on track and would happily have one as a track toy. In comparison to the road barely dropped out of the power and the extra grunt over the 400's really makes a difference. Still preferred my SV and the NC35 although a proper race version could maybe make me change my mind.

Druid