California, Proposition 19, freeing the weed !

Originally Posted by no_akira

With the same reasoning you could argue that it could have started even before cannabis with plain old cigarettes and alcohol, to a person who is sensitive to stimulants.

Heroin is special case, a drug with an addictive quality way above all the others. I always think of John Lennon, a man with the world at his feet and yet had a go at the 'H' when it was in vogue (like 'E's & ohms to my generation) and ten years later was still on it !

The real problem is that when you go to score from a dealer, they quickly spot the young lads / lasses that keep coming back and then its in there own interest to move them onto Herion. To dealers Herion is a wonder product, plentiful, cheap, highly addictive, a golden ticket.

sleepy eyed teenage stoner; "got any gear mate ?"

dealer; "No go Joe, there is bit off a drought on at the mo, got loads of 'H' and its only £5 a wrap"

I wasn't arguing anything, you have misquoted me slightly by excluding the part where I said I am not saying that happens to everyone who smokes cannabis!!!

And how can you use that reasoning? You are assuming that they did indeed smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol prior to that. It's something I take an interest in, I always like to ask the co-operative ones what happened and how they ended up where they are and most are very frank and open about it, if you are frank and open with them. Most tend to have started smoking the odd joint and then it just spirals out of control.

I do see what you are saying though and I realise that dealers are a big problem for pushing, although I don't think their tactics are always as nice as you imply!

Most people I know who smoke weed drank alcohol first. What does that make alcohol?

MBK, you really have to know the proportion of cannabis users that go on to do harder drugs like heroin to be able to say whether or not cannabis is a significant gateway drug. I don't think those figures are out there.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

I have also watched people who use cannabis to try and escape their problems end up moving onto to harder drugs and ruining their lives.

Surely then it's the fact that they were nutters in the first place then that cause them to start on hard drugs... not the cannabis.

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

That's not me saying that everyone who smokes cannabis is gonna end up on heroin, not saying that at all, however, it is a stepping stone for people with the right problems and things

Originally Posted by thulfi

Most people I know who smoke weed drank alcohol first. What does that make alcohol?

MBK, you really have to know the proportion of cannabis users that go on to do harder drugs like heroin to be able to say whether or not cannabis is a significant gateway drug. I don't think those figures are out there.

Ok, where there did I say it was a gateway drug?

I specifically made the point that it is a stepping stone for CERTAIN people. Many variables in it.

And why do I need to know the figure of people using cannabis when almost every heroin user I have ever spoken to has point blank told me, cannabis was their downfall?

Whilst the percentage of cannabis users who move onto harder drugs is unknown, I am going from anecdotal evidence from those on the harder drugs and I would say about 90% of heroin addicts I have dealt with have told me that cannabis was their "stepping stone". Their words not mine.

I don't personally agree with legalising cannabis, I can see there are some pros but for me, if we can't control alcohol use, we wouldn't be able to control cannabis use effectively.

Like I said, drugs legislation will never be perfect and there will always be arguments for and against different drugs.

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Ha Eccies and LSD least damaging....that's because on LSD you die from jumping out a window....lol!

I personally don't like cannabis because I have watched family members and friends mental health deteriorate - in almost exactly the same way with the paranoia and things. I have also watched people who use cannabis to try and escape their problems end up moving onto to harder drugs and ruining their lives.

Almost every single heroin addict I have ever spoken to (which is quite a lot) has told me that their downfall was cannabis. That's not me saying that everyone who smokes cannabis is gonna end up on heroin, not saying that at all, however, it is a stepping stone for people with the right problems and things.

Drugs legislation will never be perfect. It is impossible to legislate it in order to keep everyone happy.

+1

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Ok, where there did I say it was a gateway drug?

I specifically made the point that it is a stepping stone for CERTAIN people.

ie a gateway drug.

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

And why do I need to know the figure of people using cannabis when almost every heroin user I have ever spoken to has point blank told me, cannabis was their downfall?

Whilst the percentage of cannabis users who move onto harder drugs is unknown, I am going from anecdotal evidence from those on the harder drugs and I would say about 90% of heroin addicts I have dealt with have told me that cannabis was their "stepping stone". Their words not mine.

Because lets say the percentage of cannabis users that go on to heroin is 0.1% or lets say it's 50%. There's a massive difference there which sheds a whole different light onto the effect of this drug in acting as a 'stepping stone' for harder drugs.

Just because 90% of the heroin users you've dealth with have done cannabis, doesn't mean too much. What percentage of the pot heads you deal with did alcohol first?

[maviczap]

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Like I said, drugs legislation will never be perfect and there will always be arguments for and against different drugs.

Big +1 on this

Originally Posted by thulfi

ie a gateway drug.



Because lets say the percentage of cannabis users that go on to heroin is 0.1% or lets say it's 50%. There's a massive difference there which sheds a whole different light onto the effect of this drug in acting as a 'stepping stone' for harder drugs.

Just because 90% of the heroin users you've dealth with have done cannabis, doesn't mean too much. What percentage of the pot heads you deal with did alcohol first?

Yeh, I get what you are saying, but I don't think you are getting exactly what I am meaning. It's difficult to explain on here.

Just like to point out they themselves say it was the stepping stone, not me.

I shall ponder on this and think of how to explain what I am meaning, brain too tired just now!

[dizzyblonde]

Smoking pot leads to Heroin addiction.....biggest crock of sh1te I've ever heard.

The problem is your genetic make up, to wether you have addictive tendencies.

ooooo might be shocking to you lot on here, but I used to wake up to a joint, smoke joints all day and have a maaaahooooooosive bifta before bedtime. SO hate me for it, there you have it, fall out with me and make me feel shameful, but in no way have I ever used harder, and much more loathsome drugs.
I don't smoke even a cigarette these days, haven't for six years, nor do I drink a massive amount of alcohol.
As for it making you into a depressive state...well these days I have much more issues with depression than I ever did when I smoked pot all day...and its not a delayed reaction to it, because I stopped smoking that not long before I gave up fags.


As before its only a stepping stone if you already have the genes within for addiction. I obviously don't have those genes. I don't scowl and look down on those who smoke pot, entirely hypocritical, if they want to, then fine, no issue to me. Those who dislike pot smokers and scorn, should damn well butt out and leave their thoughts to themselves.

[Dave20046]

Originally Posted by Milky Bar Kid

Yeh, I get what you are saying, but I don't think you are getting exactly what I am meaning. It's difficult to explain on here.

Just like to point out they themselves say it was the stepping stone, not me.

I shall ponder on this and think of how to explain what I am meaning, brain too tired just now!

I reckon it's the person, not the drug. Smackheads will get high on anything, it's just the odds are, amongst other things, they will have started with cannabis - one of the most readily available drugs.
I can imagine a baghead sort not being able to get hold of any, so needing the next thing they can get off their face with be it white lightning, cannabis, pills, glue. But I couldn't imagine the folk daimo refers to thinking "ah what the hell it's friday, I'm going to go shoot up and pass out behind lidl"