The cold war, take 2.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26465962

No surprise there. I wonder if America will support this fine example of democracy... assuming they decide they want to go of course.

[Wideboy]

Wouldn't that then mean that crimia has been taken by an armed coup? As putin is claiming that's what happened in Ukraine yet mp's voted for Yanukovych to leave office.

[PyroUK]

Would that only be the case if Putin actually shifted the rule himself? The story implies that Crimea has taken this opportunity to decide for itself to align with the Russian federation. As opposed to Russia coming in and taking it.

Originally Posted by Wideboy

Wouldn't that then mean that crimia has been taken by an armed coup? As putin is claiming that's what happened in Ukraine yet mp's voted for Yanukovych to leave office.

depends on the legalities of the vote.

I'm not entirely up on the political situation of Crimea but I understand its at least semi-independent. Sounds to me like they're having a referendum similar to the one the scots are having.

What did I say...

Originally Posted by Spank86

not entirely up on the political situation of Crimea

Its an autonomous republic which is part of Ukraine, traditionally able to elect their own Govt but since the 90's this has been pretty artificial due to Russia's defacto influence. The PM was usually chosen by the Ukranian parliament in conjunction with Crimea, but now...well, Russia are seeking to do what they see fit.

Originally Posted by Runako

but now...well, Russia are seeking to do what they see fit.

Surely it's the Crimeans seeking to do what they see fit?

I mean their government's voted and now their people are going to.

That's more than We get on Europe and more than 90% of the UK get on independence.

Originally Posted by Spank86

Surely it's the Crimeans seeking to do what they see fit?

I mean their government's voted and now their people are going to.

That's more than We get on Europe and more than 90% of the UK get on independence.

Are you serious dude? I thought you were one of those that did the research? Haven't you even seen the BBC footage of speaking to the "Crimeans" who stated "We are Russian"?

The demographic split is almost 50% ethnic Russian. I've already mentioned about the handing over of passports and the defacto control Russia exerted over Crimea. I knew this was the next logical step and as I said before, its just a startegic move by Russia to maintain their control over the region. It has nothing to do with the welfare of the Ukranian people.

Originally Posted by Runako

Are you serious dude? I thought you were one of those that did the research? Haven't you even seen the BBC footage of speaking to the "Crimeans" who stated "We are Russian"?

yes, and yes I know that the original population (or at least the second to last bunch of settlers) were displaced decades ago but you can only deal with the people there NOW, not the people you wish were there, or the people who's great granddads were there (Is there even such a thing as a "Crimean"? excepting the long gone Tartars I suppose, I would have thought it natural they would either define themselves as Ukrainian or Russian)

Originally Posted by Runako

The demographic split is almost 50% ethnic Russian. I've already mentioned about the handing over of passports and the defacto control Russia exerted over Crimea. I knew this was the next logical step and as I said before, its just a startegic move by Russia to maintain their control over the region. It has nothing to do with the welfare of the Ukranian people.

From Russia's perspective obviously not, although they were the ones who gave it away in the first place (twice really), so the fact that it's the people who actually live there making the decisions is enough for me.

Where those people came from before they lived in Crimea was a matter for the authorities at the time, they let them in (well, post fall of the soviet union anyway).

I don't see what the big issue is. Whatever Russia's reasons are, I'd prefer to look at what the people want and that's looking like being them being part of Russia, It's not like Ukraine's government only wants Crimea for welfare reasons and you can be damn sure that the USA isn't interested in if Sergei from Sevastopol is happy with his police force.

Originally Posted by Spank86

you wish were there

I could care less whether they were Tartars or Russians or Martians! My wish?

The point is the people that are living in Ukraine are supposed to be Ukranian.

The people who are citizens of this country are supposed to be British, no matter where they came from. Now I realise that this in itself is a topical issue as many 'native' British - whatever that is - would never regard someone who emigrated from the Caribbean or Asia as "British" but I'm a big believer that you should seek integration into the society in which you wish or choose to live in.

The fact is the other 50% or so, whatever their ethnicity, consider themselves as Ukranian. The Country is Ukraine.

Russia did not give up Crimea, the USSR did before it fell apart. As important as Crimea is for Russian history, it existed for over 50 years as a Ukranian state. This is not like Scotish independence. Scotland don't have the power to arbitrarily decide their own independence. What is happening in Crimea is not democratic because it is ignoring Ukraine.

But as long as Russia try to assert complete authority over Crimea, they'll be happy with that.