Any Constructive Comments Re. the Abersoch Rideout

It is unfortunate that this thread has blossomed into a general "rideout thoughts and expectations" thread, as Ed is feeling a bit persecuted. I'm sure that is not the case, but shows a need to clarify things before a rideout. Either on the day (preferable in my opinion) or by posting up something beforehand (better than nothing and can make people think about procedure etc)

Rideouts are organised for the enjoyment of all. The only real exception is the poor TEC who has to moderate their pace to the slowest bike, deal with breakdowns and possibly be first bike on scene in the event of an off. This task is most often undertaken willingly though occasionally somebody may be pressed into duty, with various riders sharing the task over the days ride.

I have always favoured using designated drop off riders on my rideouts. They know what they are doing and where best to place themselves for maximum visibility on junctions etc. The other riders in the group get to recognise them, so errors are lessened, and are also re-assured knowing that each J will be marked. The downside is that the riders have to make their way through the pack having done the latest bit of marking and that can be unsettling for less experienced riders. However it's nothing worse than you'd get on any Sunday if you rode to somewhere biker popular anyway. Also the marker guys will/should be more thoughtful in their overtakes and give our bikes "room".

The leader, often has the best ride of the day. Open roads, good team behind him doing their job, and only the pressure of getting to the next stop without any U turns to think of.

Originally Posted by petevtwin650

It is unfortunate that this thread has blossomed into a general "rideout thoughts and expectations" thread, as Ed is feeling a bit persecuted.

The downside is that the riders have to make their way through the pack having done the latest bit of marking and that can be unsettling for less experienced riders.

This thread de-railed and stopped being about the Abersoch run a long time ago, hopefully Ed's feeling a bit better about it.

Working through the pack ends up happening on the second man drop off as well, as the guys immediately behind the leader are usually the faster riders. He's having fun behind the leader on a great bit of road, then he has to mark a junction and it puts him straight to the back where it's to slow for him, Go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect £200! So what does he do? Spends the next 1/2 hour looking for overtake opportunities until he gets back to the front.

That's what I like about the drop off system*. Once everyone finds their comfort zone and natural place in the group, they stay there, everyone always rides at a pace they are comfortable with without much overtaking going on within the group. If you then try to leave stops in approximately the same order you arrived, it cuts down overtaking even more. I accept however that the system is more susceptible to failure, but it works for SV Ecosse for upwards of 20 bikes, but all the riders are well drilled in marking and the routes are simpler with less turnings and less towns to go through. On a ride of less than 10 bikes, I'd always use it though, unless the riders specifically wanted to use second man because that's what they were used to.

*(or man in the mirrors, a name for it I don't like because it implies that you have to keep the man behind in your mirrors, and ride at his pace, you don't, you can leave him behind so long as you stop and wait for him at junctions)

If you use designated drop off riders it can actually work better than second man drop off, and be very safe, if every marker has something to identify them on the front of the bike and riders are asked to move over for them when they see them in the mirrors or get flashed with a headlight. Markers can then get back to the front within a mile.

[Mr Speirs]

If you use designated drop off riders it can actually work better than second man drop off, and be very safe, if every marker has something to identify them on the front of the bike and riders are asked to move over for them when they see them in the mirrors or get flashed with a headlight. Markers can then get back to the front within a mile.

I agree Ralph about designated drop off being able to work better than second man drop off, however I don't think there should be a need for people to pull over for them. They should be aware of them and choose to let them through if they wished but ultimately the overtakes should still be safe and legal and the responsibility of the marker leaving the group to ride their own ride. My 2 pence

Oh dear.... Ed I`m really sorry if you feel this thread is starting to have a pop at you. It really wasn`t started with that in mind and I don`t for one minute think that people are having a dig but can understand how you`re feeling.

From my point of view it was just to remind people that we might have got a bit over excited with it being our first rideout of the season and overlooked one or two things. I just wanted to make sure that future rideouts went smoothly.

Again, I can`t stress enough how brilliant I thought the day was... I had a fantastic time and a huge thankyou for organising it. I think that whoever had organised it we might have had a couple of hiccups with it being the first rideout.

Originally Posted by 5hort5

Who's hiding behind the box? (From said ride out)

lol where did you dig that pic out from? Am loving those highlights... will have to try and remember where I had them done

[Bluepete]

What not to do on a ride out

Pete

Originally Posted by Bluepete

What not to do on a ride out

Pete

Anyone notice how many American riders wear jeans and a jacket and nobody bats an eyelid

That is just so funny

Originally Posted by Mr Speirs

I agree Ralph about designated drop off being able to work better than second man drop off, however I don't think there should be a need for people to pull over for them. They should be aware of them and choose to let them through if they wished but ultimately the overtakes should still be safe and legal and the responsibility of the marker leaving the group to ride their own ride. My 2 pence

Agreed that the overtake has to remain the responsibility of the marker. Trouble with the nominated marker system is that the markers are limited in numbers. If you come though a town with a few junctions and roundabouts, you can put them ALL at the back. They are then under pressure to get back to the front before the next junction or town. If the leader gets to the next junction without a marker behind him he has stop the rideout, and you get 20-30 bikes lined up in a place where it's probably far from ideal to stop three bikes, never mind 20. It's never good to put any rider, experienced competent chosen as a marker or not, under pressure. So anything the other rideout members can do to help them back to the front is a good thing IMO. After all they are helping you all the way along the rideout showing you where to go, you owe them the courtesy of a little move over and wave past at least. It has to be a safe place to wave them through obviously, if it's a misguided move over and wave past, the marker doesn't have to move through. If a rider can't cope with that then they can't cope with helping an emergency services vehicle trying to get past them and need more training.

[5hort5]

Originally Posted by Luckypants

Ahhh then you will know all about how these things work . I led that ride as an introduction to rideouts, it went very well. We had a marker issue on that ride too, where there a turning was not marked because the #2 bike had a mechanical problem... The two bikes that went AWOL as a result followed the process of 'stopping because they had not seen any bikes for a while' and called in to me as leader. We picked them up after fixing the bike with a problem. That ride was a good ride and gives you an idea of what to expect of these things.

Originally Posted by Luckypants

I would hate for anyone to feel they are not able to come and join in. So much so that if anyone feels that way, drop me a PM. I'm happy to organise a day ride at a pace you feel comfortable with, of length you feel comfortable with, on roads you are comfortable with - so you get the chance to find out how much fun the camaraderie on a ride out is.

Yes it was a good ride out, that ice sheet going into ladyblower though, eeeek! And me marking an exit and pulling out behind all the bikes practically into the side of a jaguar, doh! It was fun and I loved it but I think ride outs are one of those things that are great once you know what to do but can be worrisome when new (or not having done one in a couple of years and having forgot everything - me).

On your second point, that's a really kind offer, it would be great if we could possibly do a shortish, 100 mile max?, ride out like that the one in February 08 (but with no ice) as an introduction day again? The roads don't have to be any i know and it would be great for this to be open for anyone experienced or not but with the knowledge that everyone new will be learning and with a focus on picking up tips with feedback, that would be useful and very much appreciated. I'm sure it would inspire more confidence in me but it would be interesting to know if anyone else newish to this would fancy it?

PS - Many apologies to Ed, I led this thread well off topic - soz