STOP...

Originally Posted by philipMac

A gentle reminder. Sound. Because, I had almost forgotten my mate was abused by a priest in Dublin. And it had clean slipped my mind how that kiddie porn existed and was a bad thing.
And, I am relieved that every one can ease their concience by clicking a gif.

I am saying what I believe. That is what I am doing. I am not burying my head in the sand. It might be unpopular, but I think its true.

If someone puts up a poll, they are looking for a consensus opinion. This has nothing to do with polls or voting.

Just like I had almost forgotten that I was RAPED when I was 12!!!

I'm going to stop posting now. I've made my point. The thread has worked. I have had a LOT of support because lots of people have lit candles, which was the whole point of the thread.

For those of you against this meaningless thread, we are all entitled to our opinions but I thank you for making this thread more popular because of your negativity.

Originally Posted by philipMac

If someone puts up a poll, they are looking for a consensus opinion. This has nothing to do with polls or voting.

the people who created this website who put the gif for you to click on were asking you for a concious opinion you either click on it or you dont,if you do then you are voting all the same.

same principal as a poll so YES it could be classed as a poll,the only difference being there is no Yes/No option

Originally Posted by BabyJ

Just like I had almost forgotten that I was RAPED when I was 12!!!

I'm going to stop posting now. I've made my point. The thread has worked. I have had a LOT of support because lots of people have lit candles, which was the whole point of the thread.

For those of you against this meaningless thread, we are all entitled to our opinions but I thank you for making this thread more popular because of your negativity.

Sorry but you did this to raise awareness of 'the issue' and you then complain when someone who actually has worked in this field tries to discuss this and enlighten people to the complexities surrounding this?

More than a little contradictory - because surely if you wanted awareness you would have taken the opportunity to discuss what I was saying but clearly you want selective awareness without too much truth or reality.

Because one thing you have still failed to realise is this - this isnt the real issue that needs addressing. Clearing the public area of the web will only banish it to the private domain - and that is where the really horrific stuff is, it is rarely in the public domain. I dont think you could even begin to comprehend what its like to trawl through hard disks with nearly 100,000 paedophile images - very few of which are available on the sites this site is trying to get closed down [and ignoring the efforts of police, government, ISPs and IWF].

I mean the IWF in the past 10 years has seen child porn drop from 18% hosted in the UK to 0.2%. How much fecking more can they do in this jurisdiction? Do you not think they are going after the remaining 0.2%? And even if they do, the police units will be full time busy going after the private collectors and those who do not share or host in public. But I guess getting them will be just as easy as clicking a link too. [Damn - mods can we have the visordown dozey smiley, nothing on here really seems to compare :P ]

And while some people who lit a candle sits smugly having eased their conscience, like someone said earlier, it hasnt stopped a child from being abused.

And frankly, it is stopping the abuse in the first place which is the issue which REALLY needs to be addressed.

[21QUEST]

I thought I said 'leave it' folks . Alright.....

Originally Posted by Bellerophon

It seems to me that there are an awful lot of people on this forum that seem to make a career out of belittling other peoples points of view. Sure, these people are entitled to their opinion but not to the point that it belittles people.

I think these people need to just lighten up a little. Lynw says she has seen many horrific things regarding paedophiles. Fine. No problem. I sympathise, but you gotta deal with it. I see horrific sights virtually every shift I do. For instance, a mothers grief after she had accidentally run over her son; a father and son burnt to death in an RTC- one in which they were the innocent parties. I could go on but I won't as there isn't much point and it would soon get a bit boring. The point that BabyJ was trying to make was NOT one of trying to change the world but to raise awareness. There is a difference.

Flame me if you like. I'm not really that bothered.

Good on you though BabyJ for raising awareness.

I won't flame you as I think that is a very good post and I agree with a much you said. Wholely agree with you with regards to witnessing horrific things in the course of your job. it comes with the territory as you said. It is arguable whether that can be classed as getting off you ass to do something. It's a job which you are being paid to do. End off.

Originally Posted by BabyJ

Just like I had almost forgotten that I was RAPED when I was 12!!!

I'm going to stop posting now. I've made my point. The thread has worked. I have had a LOT of support because lots of people have lit candles, which was the whole point of the thread.

For those of you against this meaningless thread, we are all entitled to our opinions but I thank you for making this thread more popular because of your negativity.

BabyJ I applaud your courage in making the above post.
Now what did I say earlier about people making assumptions because someone may have clicked on a gif?

The thing is this, is a lot of people IMO have posted a lot of ****e even if there may have been some facts with said crap. The thing is everyone thinks theirs(opinion) is not. That is fine to a point Everyone has one and all that.

Like I said ealier, all this 'what's the point of clicking on a gif' IMO is a load of bollix precisely because some people have missed goal mouth by a wide margin(IMO).

Now I hope this is the last post on this thread :P



Cheers
Ben

So, is there any point in signing a petition about anything? Saving the cottage hospital? Banning hunting? Stopping the war in Iraq? Taken to extremes, you could say that the Government has the country's best interests at heart, is on the case already (whatever the case is) and therefore theres no point in doing anything.

EDIT: was replying to lynw's post - which has mysteriously disappeared.

Originally Posted by Ed

So, is there any point in signing a petition about anything? Saving the cottage hospital? Banning hunting? Stopping the war in Iraq? Taken to extremes, you could say that the Government has the country's best interests at heart, is on the case already (whatever the case is) and therefore theres no point in doing anything.

EDIT: was replying to lynw's post - which has mysteriously disappeared.

I thought on reflection best not left.

Now there would be no problem to me with this if:

1. child abuse was not a topic which a lot of people are aware of. But they are. Its got stupid to the point parents cant take pictures of their kids at football matches in Ashford now because of child protection laws. As someone said in the other thread - this is not an issue that needs its profile raised - its pretty well debated and well known subject with nigh on universal agreement that its not a good thing.

2. if we were actually addressing the real areas of concern. Cleaning up the internet is not going to make a difference to abused children. The bulk of abusers and paedophile material are not in the public domain - theyre well hidden and encrypted on private servers. All you are doing is clearing one area - and for that I have no problem with it. But to me, the real issue is catching the abusers and stopping the abuse - which this will not change.

3. because its too easy for people to click on a link and think thats all it takes to do something. It would be fine if it were aimed at people who werent doing anything - but law enforcement, governments, ISPs and other agencies are working flat out. As Ive just put in the other thread - IWF have cut public images hosted in the uk from 18% to 0.2%. And they managed to do that without 700,000 odd clicks on a link to help them. Theyre clearly dedicated and working flat out as it - and they are fully aware the majority of people want them to do it. They dont need a petition telling them theyre seen as not doing enough.

I have not said I dont want it to work - I would dearly love to think it would. But given the factors above and my knowledge that the abusers lurk in the private area its not going to change anything for the children being abused which to me is the real issue. We should be actively trying to stop the abuse. Not easing our consciences with a quick click on a link - life simply isnt that simple unfortunately.

Ime its rare for a petition to work - not saying they dont. But the aims of this one are imo while worthy aims they are also a bit pointless - because theyre petitioning people already doing what they are petitioning for and will continue to do even if this petition didnt exist.

[northwind]

I'm kind of with PhilipMac... I don't really think a website's needed to tell the world that people don't approve of child abuse. I'm pretty sure most people know already. And anyone who doesn't, or who disagrees, won't be affected in the least by a website. So I'd say it's entirely irrelevant, personally. Perhaps next we'll have a campaign where we can all declare our distaste for murder.

You can get 400,000 people in England and Wales to declare themselves Jedi on the census, doesn't change anything there either. I hear 23 people declared me ginger the other day...

Of course, it does no harm. Unless people light their candle and consider that their "good deed for the day", and find it salves their conscience enough that they can turn the other cheek to someone else in need- sorry buddy, can't help you today, I already helped kids to not get abused. But then, people who'd think like that are a lost cause whether they sign up to these websites or not, so does it make a difference to that either? Who knows.

741092.

I've deliberately stayed away from this thread for a while, mainly to let the dust settle. I'm probably almost as close to the issue as some people can be. Granted not as affected by it as BabyJ and people like her, but I have known people that have been through similar situations, and as Bellephron, helped with the aftermath (as much as possible - which is not much at all) of very bad situations.

As Lynw, I've also spent time dealing with, for want of a better term (limiting because of U-rating), offenders. I too have had to sift through truly shocking imagery, and not only related to child pornography/rape.

My take on the candles website is simply that it's a petition. Granted it's more graphical than your usual petition, but a petition non -the less.

Yes there are organistaions (and even sole individuals) doing as much as physically possible to combat these issues and others. However, there are also 'NIMBY' organisations out there, the ones that know the problem exists, but do little about it. I know of many ISPs for example, that knowingly host illegal content, and even when this is reported to them, they do nothing about it because of their 'legal disclaimer' stating that they CAN remove data, but they don't have the duty to do so. I also know of banks that invest the interest they make on regular current accounts etc in, well, lets say dubious places.

Where's the harm in giving these 'NIMBY organistions' a little push?

With all this in mind, there is a candle lit for me, my fiance, each one of my children, and all the rest of my friends & family have been informed about the site.

Whatever anyone says, the website is intended for good, not bad. Its there for people to show they care - everyone knows about it, but nobody talks about it. I think its good.

How many candles is it now?

Matt