NW Rideouts & accidents

Looks like my groups idea is a none starter, well it was just a thought as I said earlier, didnt mean to add fuel to an already smoldering fire

[Luckypants]

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

Edit : Dont split it up into groups, you'll get ego issues and toys out of prams where rider x thinks they should be in the fast group etc etc its just asking for hassle for the rideout organisers IMHO.

Excellent post Fizz and I especially agree with this bit, something I alluded to in my post.

[Ruffy]

Let me offer the view of someone who hasn't yet joined a rideout but is considering it:

In our time, me & the missus have ridden a lot in groups and individually so we know a bit about what's involved and have our own feel for likely accident rates. When getting a group together, everyone wants to feel that they are going to get back having felt the upside thrill of the ride but not the downside pain of an accident. That means finding a tricky balance and it's difficult to gauge before opting to ride with a new group of individuals. Nowadays, family constraints mean that we don't ride as often and that, when we do, we tend to take the kids as pillions (Also, my wife has a back condition that means there is greater likelihood that a serious off could put her in a wheelchair, or worse.) So, in reading the headline "4 NW rideouts, 4 accidents" the instinctive conclusion is "Ooo, not sure, actually".

There is much that can go wrong and everyone wants to avoid that. It's too easy to dismiss things as "it just happens". Whilst there are generic risks associated with a particular activity (in this case, every ride on our bikes), there may be further specific risks that become apparent as a result of certain circumstances. Whilst all the generic risks cannot be removed without stopping the activity, the specific risks can be managed. This is pretty much at the heart of commercial/professional/industrial risk assessment and I believe exactly the same theory can apply to any organised event (No I don't work for the HSE). Mitigating non-generic risks is what all the organisation contributes towards, and it is clear that a huge amount of work goes into it. Rider training, practice etc. all improve the situation, so it's wrong to suggest that no control can be applied.

Therefore, it's entirely correct that there should be further questions asked when there is a history of incidents. I believe it's a healthy thing and Baph is to be applauded for raising the subject. It is possible that it is pure coincidence - it may be statistically less likely but clearly still possible. Great! I hope that that's the fact of the matter in this instance, but let's all be thorough about reaching that conclusion, otherwise the perception will soon grow that these rideouts are dangerous, that they are managed in a cavalier fashion and that by joining in you are putting yourself at great risk of being the next accident victim. I'm sure that's not the view anyone wants to form in a newbie's head, is it?

(Sorry if this comes across as a bit negative. I personally don't believe it's that bad yet, and I hope that we will be able to get the chance to get out with some/many of you at some point in the future - if you'll still have us!.)

[Luckypants]

ruffy, would you like to expand that a bit? Can you give examples of the 'specific risks' inherent in a rideout? I think perhaps we are too close to this to see these.

Can I just say here that talking about "specific/non generic risks" etc is just taking this too far. It`s a rideout, we do it to have fun, we don`t deliberately go out to get hurt and write bikes off!!!

Yes somebody raised a question at the start of the thread... by reading all the reply`s it`s obvious that there is no question that the planning/organisation of these rideouts is at fault. The people who`ve replied in a positive way have been people that have been at these rideouts so listen to what they are saying!!!! You ride within your ability, you don`t exceed your comfort zone. It is your own choice on how you ride that day, nobody is made to feel they have to ride faster!!!

If this all carries on I`m sure Mike is gonna get to the point where he just thinks to hell with all this..... what fun is there to be had in organising a great weekend only to have your efforts shot down in flames like this.

This is starting to go way too far. I`m tempted to say if people want to take part then come along if you don`t then don`t bother, no need to make such a huge song and dance about it

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

So guys, again I say shiit happens, theres no need to change the formula, the boys need to keep the testosterone down and need for speed to themselves and take a step back.

I'll just point out again that AFAIK none of the NW offs have been caused by testosterone fuelled racing on the public road.
I do agree that riding should be chilled out and sensible.

Originally Posted by Luckypants

ruffy, would you like to expand that a bit? Can you give examples of the 'specific risks' inherent in a rideout? I think perhaps we are too close to this to see these.

You're riding a bike, there's the risk of coming off. I don't think that is changed or increased whether riding in a group or alone.

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

Scenario......Drew rode behind me on the entire NW3, at one stop point he said he was going to go ahead of me, as he wanted to try a little faster riding..Ok, no worries I said to him. I don't mind I'm a slomo anyway
On the next stop off he said..Dizzy, I like riding behind you, its just a nice pace in this weather and your lines aren't bad either. I'm going to stay behind you.

Funnily enough I asked to follow Drew on NW3 as I enjoyed following him at his pace.

On NW3.5 his pace had picked up alot and I was having the crapest day rideing ever on the Saturday so was looked after by the TEC.

[Lissa]

Originally Posted by DoubleD

Funnily enough I asked to follow Drew on NW3 as I enjoyed following him at his pace.

On NW3.5 his pace had picked up alot and I was having the crapest day rideing ever on the Saturday so was looked after by the TEC.

And that sums up everything about these rideoute.................people ride at the pace they are happy/comfortable with. We ride how we like to ride. That may be quicker than some people want to go, and slower than others want to go, but it's our pace. If the freedom to ride how you enjoy goes, then what is the point of doing these events?

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by Lissa

And that sums up everything about these rideoute.................people ride at the pace they are happy/comfortable with. We ride how we like to ride. That may be quicker than some people want to go, and slower than others want to go, but it's our pace. If the freedom to ride how you enjoy goes, then what is the point of doing these events?

Agreed, but also theres no point in sweeping an issue like this under the carpet, if somethings wrong and nobody speaks up then you'll never sort it out.

Maybe face to face talk at the meets would enable you to have a better discussion ?

Edit : Sorry Lissa, thats not directed at you, apologies if its come across that way

[Lissa]

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

Agreed, but also theres no point in sweeping an issue like this under the carpet, if somethings wrong and nobody speaks up then you'll never sort it out.

Maybe face to face talk at the meets would enable you to have a better discussion ?

Edit : Sorry Lissa, thats not directed at you, apologies if its come across that way

No worries, Fizz

Pete and I have seen more than our fair share of accidents, and I hope we never see another, but the amount of miles we do, mostly riding with other people, makes that very unlikely, unfortunately. You only have to read the forums to see people are falling off all the time, whether that's in group rides or riding solo. If there were NW rides every weekend and people were falling off every weekend I agree there may be a case for looking at how things are done, but these have happened over a period of a year. How many other people have crashed/fallen off/been knocked off in that year? We all know that if you ride a bike you have a chance of crashing. You try to minimise that by riding to your ability, but sometimes road conditions, the weather, other road users.........a million and one other factors.................conspire against you.