911 TV program

Watching that just reminded me of all the holes in story when it happened. I remember thinking there were lots of unanswered questions but the pentagon part was clearly a tomahawk (or similar) missile.

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by flymo

Thats like trying to compare one earthquake to another. There are far too many specific conditions that make each unique. Never in history has a plane of this size hit a building exactly the same as the WTC towers and experienced the exact same damage, they are not comparable in this way outside of an architects theoretical plans.

These were hit by planes causing enormous structural damage, damage which caused failures in the buildings in the areas where the aircraft struck. It was plain to see on live TV.

What on earth has freefall speed got to do with anything? It collapsed under enormous weight, one floor at a time like a house of cards. With the kind of momentum those upper building sections had there would be little that could stop them once they got started.

Edit - my misread on the freefall comment, just noticed that you mentioned WTC7 building

All good points, well made mate. As i say i dont pretend to have answers to any of this.

For clarity, the freefall speed argument has also been used on the 2 main towers but not proven due to the amount of debris/dust in the air.

The freefall speed indicates that the support columns were taken out as the floors fell otherwise they would offer some minor resistance on the way down.

Aslo the lower parts of the buildings vertical support columns were never under stress enough to fracture yet all the way down they fell apart in unexplainable ways. Even if they were so hot that they bent and deformed they would not snap in convenient floor sized bits.

Anyway like i said earlier, for all those of you who aint seen it, please watch Loose Change 2, it really is a very well thought out and put together documentary that asks a lot of good sensible questions about the towers.

Dont even get me started on the pentagon tho.

[arc123]

What on earth has freefall speed got to do with anything? It collapsed under enormous weight, one floor at a time like a house of cards. With the kind of momentum those upper building sections had there would be little that could stop them once they got started.

The insinuation being that free-fall speeds indicate that there was no resistance i.e. a controlled demolition. A building falling through structural failure would still maintain some resistance and slow doen the fall. Thats the insinuation anyway. But i'm no structural engoneer so won't comment....

[arc123]

Anyway like i said earlier, for all those of you who aint seen it, please watch Loose Change 2, it really is a very well thought out and put together documentary that asks a lot of good sensible questions about the towers

A cynic would wonder why the need for Loose Change 2? And perhaps suggest it was to lose/amend some of the arguements that were 'debunked'

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by arc123

A cynic would wonder why the need for Loose Change 2? And perhaps suggest it was to lose/amend some of the arguements that were 'debunked'

Have you seen it yourself? With your points of view so far i;d imagine or at least hope you have.

A cynic will always find something to pick holes at. Loose Change is not perfect by any means but it is one of the best and least biased "truth" vids out there imho.

I also completely forgot about the third building that just fell down with no plane hitting it in exactly the same way. Quite a valid point made in this program is that 3 steel structured skyscrapers fell in the same day. 2 were hit by planes so fair enough, accept the planes did them in, but what of the third? A normal fire completely destroys the building then evidence is recovered from HDD's of dodgy dealings on the day of Sept 11th, fascintaing.

Must stop investigating now as I have spent three hours watching you tube conspiracy theories and debunking videos.

[Spiderman]

Originally Posted by Jackie_Black

I also completely forgot about the third building that just fell down with no plane hitting it in exactly the same way. Quite a valid point made in this program is that 3 steel structured skyscrapers fell in the same day. 2 were hit by planes so fair enough, accept the planes did them in, but what of the third? A normal fire completely destroys the building then evidence is recovered from HDD's of dodgy dealings on the day of Sept 11th, fascintaing.

Must stop investigating now as I have spent three hours watching you tube conspiracy theories and debunking videos.

i've literally lost days on this topic, website to website, vid to vid till i've fallen asleep and then just carried on again the next day. Its just such a fascinating subject the deeper you look into it, aint it.

[flymo]

If anybody is bored enough, take a good long read through this part of the report that discusses the possible failure sequence of WTC7. Some out there will simply say "pah, government sponsored crap!" but personally I think its the best feasible explanation I've seen anywhere. No conspiracy theories, just plain old laws of physics on a complex structure only 350 ft away from one of the biggest building collapses that has ever occured.

http://wtc.nist.gov/progress_report_.../appendixl.pdf

I think things like this will always be fascinating in a strange way.. No matter what happened there is often enough evidence either way to create a massive debate. One of the closing statements was quite interesting on the news bit with the professor. "do you really think a guy in a cave managed to get 19 people with small blades to hijack four planes and bring down the WTC" or something similar, lol. Worst thing is you'll never know, just like JFK and other similar things.

[arc123]

Have you seen it yourself? With your points of view so far i;d imagine or at least hope you have.

Yes I have watched them. Quite some time ago. It's fine for a starting point, to see that there are alternative view points to the official story. But the likes of Dylan Avery/Alex Jones don't do the 'truth movement' any favours sometimes. And that;s the main problem - people like this are too easy to pass-off as nuts. Which is why I try and steer well clear of 'conspiracy theory'. Out of interest, what other 'truth' (conspiracy) vids have you viewed? And are they based soley around 9/11, or other issues?

A cynic will always find something to pick holes at.

Unfortunatley, reverse that and the same can be said about 'truthers' or whatever you may call them. See here for an example:

I remember thinking there were lots of unanswered questions but the pentagon part was clearly a tomahawk (or similar) missile.