Why do people get restricted licenses?

[timwilky]

Lozzo

I am like Chris ignorant of whatever law requires you to behave in this fashion. Can you please define the act/section etc. Are we Joe Public doing a bit of a deal in danger of falling foul of this law if we do not check our potential purchasers are fully compliant?

No dealership either car or bike has ever asked for my licence. They have asked me for insurance cert in order to register new.

Originally Posted by timwilky

Lozzo

I am like Chris ignorant of whatever law requires you to behave in this fashion. Can you please define the act/section etc. Are we Joe Public doing a bit of a deal in danger of falling foul of this law if we do not check our potential purchasers are fully compliant?

No dealership either car or bike has ever asked for my licence. They have asked me for insurance cert in order to register new.

All three cars and the bike I have purchased from a dealer required my licence and my insurance before I could uplift the vehicles!

My SV was delivered from the dealer, emphasis on delivered, (I haven't done DAS yet), I'm getting it booked for July after my imminnent cash injection, cheques in the post). It was delivered full power and I intend to keep it that way. I have been pootling around on a 125 for the last couple of years so having my 650 sitting in the garage is my incentive to get on with it pretty sharpish. I have ridden big bikes previously, albeit on private roads, always IL4's though, R6's and Gixxers etc but never a V twin, so can't really see the point in having it or me restricted.

Originally Posted by timwilky

Lozzo

I am like Chris ignorant of whatever law requires you to behave in this fashion. Can you please define the act/section etc. Are we Joe Public doing a bit of a deal in danger of falling foul of this law if we do not check our potential purchasers are fully compliant?

No dealership either car or bike has ever asked for my licence. They have asked me for insurance cert in order to register new.

It's basically any offence for which you can get charged for aiding and abetting. If you allow someone who is not licensed and insured to ride away from your house after they buy a used bike from you, then you can be charged with aiding and abetting those offences. It is up to you as the seller to ensure that they are within the law as they leave or you lay yourself open to prosecution.

Simply being in a stolen car driven by someone else can get you charged with aiding and abetting the theft and any offence committed in that vehicle. If we allow someone we know to be on a restricted licence to ride away from the shop on an unrestricted bike, then we can be charged with aiding and abetting the offence.

There is no specific law regarding bike shops selling bikes as such, the aiding and abetting offence covers everything everywhere. What it means is, if you knowingly help someone to break the law, you can be prosecuted for allowing them to do so. When we sell someone a bike we are effectively helping them break the law if we know they are unlicensed for it as they ride away from our shop. None of us in the shop is willing to take a prosecution just for the sake of a bike sale, so if matey on a 33bhp licence turns up and wants to buy an unrestricted bike he'll get a "No" from me and everyone else. I'll fit the restriction, then tell him how it can be removed, but I won't do it for him until I see a fully unrestricted licence.

Under 21...

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by Lozzo

It is up to you as the seller to ensure that they are within the law as they leave or you lay yourself open to prosecution.

Can you find me a case where this has happened?

If I have receipt in my hand saying they take full responsibility for a vehicle, once they have signed it and paid me money I no longer have any say in what they do with it.


I agree a lot of places want to see paperwork, for good reason. But there's lots more that don't, take Badger on here for instance, he waited ages to get his SV cos his licence was away, only to be told "nah you don't need it, not our problem." And I very much doubt there is any legal comeback.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Can you find me a case where this has happened?

I don't need to. The fact is there is legislation in place that gives the potential for prosecution for the offence of aiding and abetting. Neither me or anyone else working at the shop are willing to be prosecuted because we willingly helped someone break the law. I'll support their choice in doing so once they've removed the restrictors because I think the 33bhp law is a nonsense, but I'm not willing to put myself in court for helping someone break it.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

If I have receipt in my hand saying they take full responsibility for a vehicle, once they have signed it and paid me money I no longer have any say in what they do with it.

In law it doesn't quite work that way if they drive/ride away from your house. It's up to you to check they are licensed and insured before you allow them to leave or you are in a position where you can be prosecuted if they are not. Chances are nothing will ever come of it if they aren't, but why take the risk?

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

I agree a lot of places want to see paperwork, for good reason. But there's lots more that don't, take Badger on here for instance, he waited ages to get his SV cos his licence was away, only to be told "nah you don't need it, not our problem." And I very much doubt there is any legal comeback.

There is potential for comeback, and as I said before, I'm not willing to risk a prosecution when I can simply say "No".

Surely telling them how to remove the limiter is against the law then?

No.

I can tell you how to hold a gun and shoot someone, doesn't mean I'm breaking the law in doing so.

Originally Posted by Lozzo

No.

I can tell you how to hold a gun and shoot someone, doesn't mean I'm breaking the law in doing so.

Fair point, but in my mind if you sold them the bike and then told them how to take it off surely it could be a bit of a grey area after what you said earlier re-aiding and abetting?