Migrant Labour

Originally Posted by gettin2dizzy

In London it is widely accepted that organised Romanian gangs are responsible for the majority of motorcycle theft

That's the first I hear of that one. Any chance you have some links to corroborate it?

I have heard about the cash machine fraud.

The real problem is not the immigrants, it's the warped view of entitlement. We have a considerable problem in the UK with the number of people on unemployment benefit, many believing that their entitlement is a right rather than a benefit. Similarly with incapacity benefit, particularly here in the north east. I am not suggesting for a minute that genuinely unemployed or incapacitated people are not deserving of support from the government, however the level of support is so great and easily attainable that abuse is rife.
The idea that being born in a particular place entitles you to more than someone who was born elsewhere is equally misguided, and put bluntly, xenophobic. It should be your contribution that should be recognised rather than your nationality. You cannot reasonably argue that you should be more concerned about a non-working foreigner taking from the state than a non-working national, that's absurd. It's the same in the case for the employed too. It is often argued that your heritage makes you more entitled, "My father fought for this county" for example. So what? That made your father entitled, not you.
Who's to blame? Partly the government, partly the media, but mainly ourselves. We are frighteningly selfish, materialistic and isolated as a people, more so than any time in history. We send our mothers and fathers to nursing homes when they become a nuisance, we tolerate inequality for women out of respect for beliefs. Two million children in the UK live in poverty, but as long as we're OK... That's the mindset. We have bigger problems than immigration.
The truth is that people are scared of immigrants becoming more successful than they are. Fear and Loathing. I'm scared of it so I'll dislike it. If that's the calibre of my countrymen, then please keep sending in the foreigners.

Hello to everyone by the way. I'm new, but have been reading for a bit. Looks like a great forum. J

Originally Posted by licoricepizza

The real problem is not the immigrants, it's the warped view of entitlement. We have a considerable problem in the UK with the number of people on unemployment benefit, many believing that their entitlement is a right rather than a benefit. Similarly with incapacity benefit, particularly here in the north east. I am not suggesting for a minute that genuinely unemployed or incapacitated people are not deserving of support from the government, however the level of support is so great and easily attainable that abuse is rife.
The idea that being born in a particular place entitles you to more than someone who was born elsewhere is equally misguided, and put bluntly, xenophobic. It should be your contribution that should be recognised rather than your nationality. You cannot reasonably argue that you should be more concerned about a non-working foreigner taking from the state than a non-working national, that's absurd. It's the same in the case for the employed too. It is often argued that your heritage makes you more entitled, "My father fought for this county" for example. So what? That made your father entitled, not you.
Who's to blame? Partly the government, partly the media, but mainly ourselves. We are frighteningly selfish, materialistic and isolated as a people, more so than any time in history. We send our mothers and fathers to nursing homes when they become a nuisance, we tolerate inequality for women out of respect for beliefs. Two million children in the UK live in poverty, but as long as we're OK... That's the mindset. We have bigger problems than immigration.
The truth is that people are scared of immigrants becoming more successful than they are. Fear and Loathing. I'm scared of it so I'll dislike it. If that's the calibre of my countrymen, then please keep sending in the foreigners.

Fundamentally I totally agree with that, but the concern for me is what happens when the lazy brits we both despise so much are so outclassed that they develop their own underworld (so to speak) to which we, the working population support. Do we turn like america where we pretend that we don't know of any poverty/suffering/crime? And then 'require' large forces of armed police to protect us by withdrawing any freedoms we have now? Do we than have to reduce the support we can give them both medically and financially and force them in to even more poverty?

If you were to view this as a business, you would never ever expand until you found yourself in a confident position to do so, otherwise the problems will just become larger, out of control and irreversible until collapse.

Originally Posted by gettin2dizzy

True in principle. But what the governement does is ruled by the guy with the big $$. We're mere pawns in their big game of personal wealth. If you ever set foot in the government you'd be answering to the likes of Murdoch: the man with the majority of the population under his influence; never mind the world.

The world banks hold the power to change everything in our everyday life more than we could ever imagine. The governments know this and are mere slaves to it.

Having a vote keeps the population thinking they have some kind of say in the whole process when we all know they do whatever they want.

As for working out what 'minority' the immigrants are with no numbers even for the past year, never mind 30! it is an impossible task. Another factor is when does someone become a resident national rather than an immigrant? If someone doesn't integrate with society; as far as I'm concerned, never.

You sound like a communist!

Us lowly masses are the ones that hold the vote and the power to change things. We choose not to. Simple as.

Originally Posted by Flamin_Squirrel

You sound like a communist!

Us lowly masses are the ones that hold the vote and the power to change things. We choose not to. Simple as.

Hehe. Even my sense of humour isn't good enough to call myself a communist. More of a realist

Originally Posted by gettin2dizzy

Fundamentally I totally agree with that, but the concern for me is what happens when the lazy brits we both despise so much are so outclassed that they develop their own underworld (so to speak) to which we, the working population support. Do we turn like america where we pretend that we don't know of any poverty/suffering/crime? And then 'require' large forces of armed police to protect us by withdrawing any freedoms we have now? Do we than have to reduce the support we can give them both medically and financially and force them in to even more poverty?

If you were to view this as a business, you would never ever expand until you found yourself in a confident position to do so, otherwise the problems will just become larger, out of control and irreversible until collapse.

The creation of the 'underworld', is again, our own fault. There's an irony in worrying about foreigners 'coming here and taking our jobs' when for years we have been sending our jobs to other countries, in manufacturing, agriculture etc.. For what? To save us money so we can have more. In other words, greed.

In regard to giving up freedoms, that is a product of government propaganda. It's only in their interest to restrict the population, not the population's. I don't think that the current trend is anything other than opportunism by the government due to the apathy of the average voter. The American political author Thomas Paine said "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government". Funnily enough, he was an immigrant from Britain.

Originally Posted by licoricepizza

The real problem is not the immigrants, it's the warped view of entitlement. We have a considerable problem in the UK with the number of people on unemployment benefit, many believing that their entitlement is a right rather than a benefit. Similarly with incapacity benefit, particularly here in the north east. I am not suggesting for a minute that genuinely unemployed or incapacitated people are not deserving of support from the government, however the level of support is so great and easily attainable that abuse is rife.
The idea that being born in a particular place entitles you to more than someone who was born elsewhere is equally misguided, and put bluntly, xenophobic. It should be your contribution that should be recognised rather than your nationality. You cannot reasonably argue that you should be more concerned about a non-working foreigner taking from the state than a non-working national, that's absurd. It's the same in the case for the employed too. It is often argued that your heritage makes you more entitled, "My father fought for this county" for example. So what? That made your father entitled, not you.
Who's to blame? Partly the government, partly the media, but mainly ourselves. We are frighteningly selfish, materialistic and isolated as a people, more so than any time in history. We send our mothers and fathers to nursing homes when they become a nuisance, we tolerate inequality for women out of respect for beliefs. Two million children in the UK live in poverty, but as long as we're OK... That's the mindset. We have bigger problems than immigration.
The truth is that people are scared of immigrants becoming more successful than they are. Fear and Loathing. I'm scared of it so I'll dislike it. If that's the calibre of my countrymen, then please keep sending in the foreigners.

Very well composed input if you don't mind me saying.