AR Marking Discussion

Originally Posted by Demonz

I dont know about the others but I personally dont think stereotyping and categorising folks would work to well on the day

No harm in wanting to TEC though.

You misunderstood the point of my post - I wasn't suggesting categorising folk on the day in any way shape or form - I was just making a general observation

I wouldn't WANT to TEC either, I was just saying...IF I had to chose

[Spiderman]

Thanks for all the constructive comments so far folks.

Originally Posted by ArtyLady

... I just want to enjoy the ride and if someone else has gone to the trouble to organise, lead and marshall it - great!

All the ARs i went on before this is exactly how i felt about the marking and organising. And tbh i still do.

I agree the "2nd man" system gives a lot more people the chance to participate, of that there is no doubt. But please bear in mind that some just want to come along and ride without the added requirment to mark any junctions at all.

My main concerns for the 2nd man system are these:

1. What about those who DONT want to mark at all. No one on the ride should be expected to partake of this activity unless they want to. Do we ask those who dont want to partake to stay in a pack near the back of the ride? Wil that be unfair and kinda spoil their ride/day?

2. How do we know who wants to participate without bibs? Clearly gonna be way more than i could memorise i know that much.

3. How do those who have marked a junction and are making their way back up thru those who dont want to mark know they are now "in the queue" to mark again without bibs?

As i mentioned earlier, on AR06 it was perfectly clear that me and the rider beside me were in this queue cos we were the only 2 directly behind the ride leader...yet a couple of hot headed bikes decided they wanted to force their way in front of us. And not very safely or politely either. They saw the whole thing as a game and tbh it really pee'd me off. If someone rode like that around me at any other time i'd be having some strong words with them about it. But its the AR and the last thing i wanted to do was have any bad atmosphere in the campground.

I'd hate to see say 80% of the riders wearing bibs to signify their marking and the other 20% not wearing anything, it'll make the group look wrong and again instill this sense of "them & us" thats been discussed already.

I know on our Soho rideouts we use the "2nd man" system all the time and it works flawlessly. However and i cant stress these factors enough...we ride together far more frequently than any of the other regions and our rides are normally a group of 5 - 15 or so. And the AR is far, far bigger than that.

Please remember the organisers want a headache free day, its a day for fun for them too and if it involves having to take people to one side to "have a word" about their riding it spoils the atmosphere for those involved.

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

Pete, were you bothered about not being asked to be marker on AR08 and what did you think to the marker system that was run on the day ?

Fizz, my post wasn't a comment on the AR08 marking, rather I was trying to give an insight to those who wonder what the markers get out of it.

I wasn't in the least put out about not being asked.

TBH, I can't really remember what the marking was like so I guess it must've been OK

I saw what I would consider dodgy riding but can't recollect any of them being specifically markers. No worse than you'd get going out for a Sunday ride at a busy bikers area IMO.

Also I don't think that a marker need know the route, just what is expected of them.

please please please dont change how it worked from last year. I felt safe with how it was last year, like i couyld get on with riding and not having to worry about where i was going.

I dislike group riding quite alot, and the AR is the only thing i would happuily do since i know I can go at my own pace, thanks to the TEC and markers who'll wait

BTW I am not prepared to do any marking, since those who do mark appear to need to ride at a heightened pace, to ensure they can get to their next junction. I simply wont ride faster than I feel safe, so I wont mark.

I will, however, stick by with the slow-coaches who just want to bimble along with someone to keep an eye on them. I'm confident at what I do at least

[fizzwheel]

Originally Posted by AlpineCarStereo

I simply wont ride faster than I feel safe, so I wont mark.

TBH this is the most important thing on any ride whether you are a marker ot not.

Even when I have been doing marking I never ride faster than I feel it safe to do so. I never ride out of my comfort zone just to make progress because thats how accidents happen.

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

TBH this is the most important thing on any ride whether you are a marker ot not.

Even when I have been doing marking I never ride faster than I feel it safe to do so. I never ride out of my comfort zone just to make progress because thats how accidents happen.

I think my comfort zone is alot lower than other people's...for example, today i was riding in the pi55ing rain at what i felt was a nice pace for the conditions. Low and behold, I got owned b a bloke on a (nice) 916, happliy going faster than me.

I'll bimble along and eat all the food at the bbq after, and thank the markers, leader and TEC with big hugs cos im that kinda guy

[yorkie_chris]

I cannot see any other way to go about it other than the established system.

I was at AR07 with designated markers while relatively new, none of them came past like f##knuggets, I wasn't ragging it so never got to the front of the group. It all seemed to run very smoothly.

I ran a little rideout a few months ago and led it, worrying about whether people were going to mark was THE MOST stressful thing going on during the ride! With designated, known, identifiable markers this would be negated almost completely.

The only benefit to me of 2nd man marking system is if you care to ride at a faster pace than the leader, then you still get chance to stretch your legs a little and make progress catching up again after dropping off.

If there had been designated markers on say, the Glencoe run, I would have been bored off my t1ts sat behind the leader/next markers. This is only advantage of 2nd man marking system.*
But, this doesn't seem like a worthwhile thing on the AR which is much slower. And, if any quick riders simply set off at the back of the pack, by the time they are near the front and at risk of getting bored at the leaders pace** then it will be about the time for a stop anyway since they are only 30 miles apart.

Regarding any ill-feeling, the only people who will whinge about not being markers are the very worst ones to do it. You need people who are quick-ish with nothing to prove. This sort of rider will not whinge about it if they've not been picked either.

You've got a system that works as close to perfectly as is reasonable to expect for a relaxed paced rideout like the AR, and the reasons for this system are perfectly clear to anyone with half a brain. AND there is no viable alternative. It ain't broke, so don't fix it.

*Given that we are comparing the merits on a large ride such as the AR.
** Obviously the leader cannot ride at too interesting a pace as the markers need to gain a lot of ground.

[northwind]

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

The only benefit to me of 2nd man marking system is if you care to ride at a faster pace than the leader, then you still get chance to stretch your legs a little and make progress catching up again after dropping off.

If there had been designated markers on say, the Glencoe run, I would have been bored off my t1ts sat behind the leader/next markers. This is only advantage of 2nd man marking system.*

Ah, but there's nothing stopping you from just pulling up anyway, keep a marker company... So you actually get more control, since you'll never HAVE to stop but you can choose to.

Oh, and also the GM had 1/3 as many riders and 1/3 as many junctions

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by northwind

Ah, but there's nothing stopping you from just pulling up anyway, keep a marker company... So you actually get more control, since you'll never HAVE to stop but you can choose to.

Oh, and also the GM had 1/3 as many riders and 1/3 as many junctions

A fair point well made, but, if you're not a marker then people would probably have the attitude of "why are you riding at normal pace? you're not a marker, you don't need to be at the front".
Then you get the usual quandary of how much pace to actually utilise (but nobody came back and smacked me at the Glencoe so I must have guessed about right!)

I understand there is a size a ride needs to be for the designated system to work.

Originally Posted by Demonz

Other critereas maybe they are included for being IAM members ...

Trouble with this is I know an IAM member who, despite not being a marker was seen buzzing the pack and riding antisocially on another organised ride I was on. I've also ridden with this individual and had more wincing moments than I've had with total newbies.

IAM membership shows that you rode to a system on a particular day, NOT that you are a flawless rider all the time. Similar to the driving test, they teach you how to pass an exam, not how to ride every day. (IMHO)