Why do people get restricted licenses?

Not really. I'm not watching or helping someone remove their restrictors before they've done their two years, I'm just explaining how it is done. What they choose to do when they have left the shop is down to them. I can explain how to do a multitude of things that are against the law, but unless I stand by and watch you do them without attempting to stop you, I am perfectly within the law to do so.

In the late 50s a bloke called Derek Bentley was hanged for aiding and abetting a young lad named Chris Craig shooting a copper. He didn't actually fire the shot, he just said "Let him have it" and that was enough for him to be swinging from a bit of rope. Whether he meant "Give him the gun" or "Shoot him" is open to debate, but he hanged anyway. Coincidentally, Chris Craig who fired the shot is now a plumber who's married, settled down and living in the village I used to live in. Chris Craig was a minor at the time of the offence so couldn't be hanged.

I think the old system was better------start on up to 250cc[yes some fast bikes, even then] pass test ride whatever you want. Like today the most limiting factor for me then was insurance costs.

Originally Posted by martin15s

Spain apparently has one of the highest mortality rates from RTA's in Europe and hence their adoption of the 33bhp regs. However, the law has changed again, and for the A2 licence the limit is now 47bhp but the bike can only have a maximum 94bhp to start with. I believe that these regs are apparently due to be adopted in the UK in the near future. The bike then has to be re registered with that restriction - whether or not this will also apply in the UK I know not.

This is very interesting. I thought the laws were homologated across Europe now, many countries have actually changed their license categories (A, A2, B, etc) and adopted pink Euro photocards to be the same as the rest of Europe (except the French who have stayed the same as for what I can figure out it's actually their license system the rest of Europe has adopted).

Then since then things like the 3 part test (Mod1, Mod2, etc) and the 33bhp laws, have been introduced, and I thought those were European directives that we had no choice but to comply with.

So if Spain is introducing different laws, is this not the case?

In Spain, what is the law on driving with a non-EU license? Here it is OK for one year or permanent residence, then you have to get an EU license. I'm particularly interested in a friend riding a big bike in Portugal, on a Mexican motorcylce license. I can't find an answer on it on t'interweb (if I could read Portugese it might help) so I have assumed that it's the same across Europe as we all now have the same licenses.

[dizzyblonde]

Originally Posted by Lozzo

I can explain how to do a multitude of things that are against the law, but unless I stand by and watch you do them without attempting to stop you, I am perfectly within the law to do so.

.

You could say the same as selling aftermarket cans that are 'not for road use'.
You can sell them, advise how to fit them, tell the person they aren't road legal, but you can't stop them using them on the road, once they have left the building.

Originally Posted by Jayneflakes

I loved my 125cc bike. It taught me to ride and let me get confident. My other half being an instructor meant that I got training every time we went out together.

Not being the most confident of people I struggled greatly on my DAS and could not take in that level of intensity when undertaking a five day course. My SV is still restricted and has been since day one, the Full power ECU lives in my knicker drawer and when my time is up, it will be refitted and I shall have to get used to my bike all over again.

I have to be honest, I love my bike and I love the gentle nature of the 33BHP, I find it confidence building, inspiring and plenty powerful enough for what I do. I got pulled for speeding on the motorway a while back too, so she is not at all slow.

If I had to do it all again, I would still do it like I have, I have learned a lot about riding from being on a low power bike and I am still learning now.

I couldn't agree more about the amount you can learn riding a 125. Wifey and I were quite happy on ours for bimbling around locally. The only problem was our 10 and 11 year old pillions, who turned nippy enough bikes into slow moving car-targets. Anyone who knows the A27/A3M junction will know that staying on the A27 eastbound, where you have to pull across two lanes of fast moving traffic to stay on the A27, is no fun at all when you are struggling to maintain more than 50mph. When the only reaction open to you if a situation develops is to slow down, it's downright dangerous. That was the Bank holiday after Easter. By the end of the following week, Wifey had her Monster and I had the SV. There was no way we were going through that journey again. There are times when the power is good....

[yorkie_chris]

Monster I rode felt like you describe 125

[punyXpress]

re: Lozzo's post #71 . . .
BBC News 30 July 1998
" The Court of Appeal on Thursday quashed the conviction of 19-year-old Derek Bentley who was hanged in 1953 and pardoned him. Craig at the age of 16, was too young to hang. "

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

This is very interesting. I thought the laws were homologated across Europe now, many countries have actually changed their license categories (A, A2, B, etc) and adopted pink Euro photocards to be the same as the rest of Europe (except the French who have stayed the same as for what I can figure out it's actually their license system the rest of Europe has adopted).

Then since then things like the 3 part test (Mod1, Mod2, etc) and the 33bhp laws, have been introduced, and I thought those were European directives that we had no choice but to comply with.

So if Spain is introducing different laws, is this not the case?

What Martin is saying is correct - the latest (I've lost count - either 3rd or 4th) EU directive on Driving Licences brings in the changes he's suggesting, which are supposed to be introduced over here in 2013. As I understand it, the new system that is supposed to be introduced will raise the minimum age for DAS to 24 and introduce two phases of power limits with no way of jumping ahead. The plan also includes a requirement that each stage will require a test to be passed, if the DSA has it all their way.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Monster I rode felt like you describe 125

This one's not bad. just under 600cc and pretty flexible (a b1tch to start on a cold day though, the carbs are, well, they're Italian). Wifey's 125 was a VanVan (I know, bless!) so this is like one that's grown up. I'm guessing if I was so minded, I could leave her several miles behind but I'm happy at Monster speed most of the time

Originally Posted by punyXpress

re: Lozzo's post #71 . . .
BBC News 30 July 1998
" The Court of Appeal on Thursday quashed the conviction of 19-year-old Derek Bentley who was hanged in 1953 and pardoned him. Craig at the age of 16, was too young to hang. "

Better start digging him up and reviving him then. Getting a conviction quashed 45 years after the event is a bit crap. People get convicted of aiding and abetting every day - I used an extreme example to show just how far the law will go.

Ok, a more recent case. Raoul Moat's accomplices:

Karl Ness, 26, was given three concurrent life sentences totaling a minimum tariff of 40 years for the murder of Christopher Brown, conspiracy to murder and the attempted murder of PC David Rathband. His friend Qhurum Awan got two concurrent life sentences for conspiracy to murder and the attempted murder of PC David Rathband and will serve at least 20 years in jail. Both men were also sentenced to seven years for robbery and Ness was given five years for a firearms offence. Ness, from Dudley in North Tyneside, was with Moat on the night he shot his ex-girlfriend Samantha Stobbart and killed her new boyfriend Chris Brown - who he believed was a policeman.

Neither of these men actually killed anyone themselves, but they are both serving life for effectively aiding and abetting.