Brakes! - Train your brain! - Teaching granny to suck eggs!

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

.no, a Motorcycle instructor...no I'd prefer to take advice from those sort of people over yourself. No offense.

I don't give out advice. I give a recant of experiences....theres a difference.

Some peoples advice on here is much better than what my motorcycle instructors ever taught me. I mean in terms of sound motorcycling advice, and not just giving me directions around a circuit or how to operate controls.

A piece of paper doesn't mean you're always in the position where you will give the right advice or make the right call. You don't even know what that piece of paper is testing. Give me an old white haired experienced biker who is still alive over a man with a certificate.

[dizzyblonde]

Originally Posted by thulfi

A piece of paper doesn't mean you're always in the position where you will give the right advice or make the right call. You don't even know what that piece of paper is testing. Give me an old white haired experienced biker who is still alive over a man with a certificate.

No it doesn't, however they are likely to have been around doing it, for considerably longer than the likes of you and I. I certainly take much more notice of someone older and wiser too, and I have the respect to listen too. Motorcycle instructors, yes they can be limited on how they may convey their knowledge to 'passers of tests' but they've still gotten their experiences somehow, in order for them to pass on correct and well balanced knowledge.

[yorkie_chris]

Originally Posted by dizzyblonde

no I'd prefer to take advice from those sort of people over yourself. No offense.

I don't give out advice. I give a recant of experiences....theres a difference.

Your choice, I enjoy discussing bikes and riding. Which is why I am on forum in first place. Why are you here if you don't wish to join in such discussion?

So if we take your point of view then any debate comes down to who is biggest badge collector, rather than having a stimulating and logical discussion and determining what is correct.

Qualifications... bollox! Be decent, have a discussion and justify your point of view. If someone gives X opinion and backs it up with "because I'm IAROSCoppertructor..." then automatically that opinion is suspect because they can't back it up with logic.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Your choice, I enjoy discussing bikes and riding. Which is why I am on forum in first place. Why are you here if you don't wish to join in such discussion?

So if we take your point of view then any debate comes down to who is biggest badge collector, rather than having a stimulating and logical discussion and determining what is correct.

Qualifications... bollox! Be decent, have a discussion and justify your point of view. If someone gives X opinion and backs it up with "because I'm IAROSCoppertructor..." then automatically that opinion is suspect because they can't back it up with logic.

Scuse me, i think you're just being confrontational as usual, Dizzy is not saying debates come down to who is the biggest badge collector just that people who teach advanced riding IAM, ROSPA, BIKESAFE, etc are more likely to give correct advice, I haven't included driving test instructors/examiners as they are there primarily there to get people through their tests and not advanced riding tests, although many of them probably hold advanced certificates as well and are just as able to give the advice.
It's a pity people discount the advanced groups out of hand and believe them to be a waste of time cos they have been riding for years and believe they know it all. Most of the associates we get in our IAM group are over 30, more often over 40, and have been riding for 5 years or more, we have 2 people at the moment who are nearing 70 and have been riding for years but have swallowed their pride and are doing their training, both have admitted they are learning to ride differently and are already making better progress without putting themselves in danger, I wish more younger riders who also have the same I know it all mentality would do the same.
For your information we do have stimulating and logical discussion when teaching people. Our local safety partnership and police force are hoping to bring back BikeSafe to Shropshire and have approached our IAM group to perhaps spend a few days with the police bikers as they have realised that it's o.k to be a good rider but putting that experience over in the right way to trainees for them to understand is not as easy as it seems.

Daryl.

NOT a badge collector, just an IAM Senior Observer

[dizzyblonde]

Thankyou Daryl, for actually having time to take what I post seriously, and understand its meaning correctly. I certainly aren't saying you have to be a badge collector at all. I've never been one to actually want to take part in such, but recently have questioned myself, and to be perfectly honest I needn't have had to. I'm off to ROSPA or IAMS in the Spring, not to badge collect, but to iron out a small defect, that can't be solved by non experts, as its a mental block, not a lack of skill.

As I see it at the moment, our forum is full of people who like to give advice, there are a group who do this regularly. The problem I have seen of late, is some of those who participate in these debates regularly.........and take upon themselves to use the advice given by the usual people(perhaps they see them as some godlike entitity, and as such their advice is paramount).......have fallen off, some of them tragically so.
Will all those who give out advice stand up and defend themselves, if one of those came back and said 'X and Z' told me to try this, and now I've broken bones from head to foot.??
No they aren't likely to stand and be pointed at are they.


This is why I think its preferable to seek advice from a professional. Anyone can add a disclaimer, 'my advice shouldn't be taken literally, and yer a muppet if you do'.....but people see advice givers as folk to look upto.....you have to remember that on a public forum.

You can't possibly tell someone of a professional nature, that they talk out of their ar$e, and no nothing about their profession, because its not logical.....

Guess I should make some sort of response on that one given that the OP is 'giving advice'.

I don't hold any badges and yes, I've crashed a few times, which contributes to the biking experience I've gained over the last 20 years, but given that NOBODY, badge holders and all, has responded to this...

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

If anyone thinks any part of this isn't clear, or could have been explained better, please feel free to chip in

with "no your talking bollox" (apart from one person claiming you can't lock your front brake in the dry), I'm pretty happy that the OP was good advice, and I don't regret posting it. If I wasn't pretty damn sure (ie: 99%) what I was typing was good advise, I wouldn't have posted the thread.

[dizzyblonde]

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

It's perfectly possible. Most of the time I do ride like that. A lot of police types reckon to ride like that and I'd mostly believe them, and it's a fine standard to aim for!

But we're talking about safe riding here, so I stick with what I said. You can go very fast without breaking that rule too.

Originally Posted by yorkie_chris

Qualifications... bollox! Be decent, have a discussion and justify your point of view. If someone gives X opinion and backs it up with "because I'm IAROSCoppertructor..." then automatically that opinion is suspect because they can't back it up with logic.

So then, if you aspire to ride like these professional people, why would you not be asking them how they ride, or for their advice. Bearing in mind that they are taught to ride like that, and have a 'badge' as you put it to show for it. No badge, no job. If these people are to aspire to, why would their opinion be 'automatically suspect' because they can't back it up with logic?

In one way you sing their praises, and in another, you slag them off, which camp do you actually want to be in? make yer mind up lad

[Messie]

Perhaps Yorkie Chris and Dizzyblonde can take their argument to PM now, as it seems to be getting personal (and not a tad boring!)

[dizzyblonde]

Messie, I'm not arguing, and I'm not being personal

If my posts keep getting quoted by one particular person, be it Chris or anyone else, I decide what I reply to. If my posts get questioned, why should I not respond. I aren't swearing or being confrontational. I am merely expressing a view.

[Bibio]

how about instead of analysing each others riding ability and willy waving that we start actually looking at our own faults.

for instance i love cornering on a motorcycle yes its true i get a massive big hardon out of it thrashing the bike down long straits is not my idea of fun. but i have a problem that i would like to rectify and would like some advice. before i ask this advice i would classify my skill level as very competent experienced road user but an average motorcycle rider.

now the problem.. most of the time i'm ok at going round the wiggly things but every now and again i just cant seem to judge a corner, as in i'll set myself up then drop the bike in but i find that during the process i have to keep correcting the line, as in lifting the bike back up and dropping it back in i don't know why i do it but it really pizzez me off.

any ideas?