RIP Maggie Thatcher

[maviczap]

Originally Posted by Spank86

And now our coal is cheaper and our populace aren't dying of colliers lung.

Yes, but now Colombian & Russian miners are, many of the Colombian miners are very young.

Its dangerous to be over reliant on overseas fuel, as if they want to cut off our supply, its done just like that, and there would be no back up.

Plus there are still generations of mining folk who are still feeling the effects of the pit closures today.

My guess is that they'd rather have the jobs and the mines open

[TamSV]

Any health concerns are misplaced. In the former mining towns in this area, people die young.

Originally Posted by maviczap

Yes, but now Colombian & Russian miners are, many of the Colombian miners are very young.

Its dangerous to be over reliant on overseas fuel, as if they want to cut off our supply, its done just like that, and there would be no back up.

And you think there still would be by now If we'd kept on mining?

Given that the industry was in decline anyway and that fewer pits closed on Maggies watch than in the 60's.

Originally Posted by TamSV

Any health concerns are misplaced. In the former mining towns in this area, people die young.

That'll be the deep fried marsbars.

[maviczap]

Originally Posted by Spank86

And you think there still would be by now If we'd kept on mining?
Given that the industry was in decline anyway and that fewer pits closed on Maggies watch than in the 60's. .

Myth, many of the pits Maggie closed were still profitable, better to keep them until they weren't, than paying out dole money to miners, who'd rather be working.

How much did that cost the public purse?

They WERE profitable until the miners went on strike because of the closure of the unprofitable ones.

Also a myth?

Pit closures in the 60s purely in Northumberland and Durham:


Addison Colliery
Barcus Close
Barlow Towneley
Beamish Mary
Bedlington F
Bedlington Doctor
Bowburn
Brancepeth
Brandon
Burnopfield
Cambois
Chester South Moor
Choppington A
Chopwell
Clara Vale
Crofton Mill (Blyth)
Crookhall (Lanchester)
Deaf Hill (Trimdon)
Dean and Chapter (Ferryhill and Chilton)
Dinnington
East Tanfield
East Walbottle
Esh
Hamsterley
Handenhold
Harraton
Harton
Hazlerigg
Heworth
High Marley Hill
Kimblesworth
Lambton D
Lanchester
Leasingthone
Linton
Lumley Sixth
Longhirst (Ashington)
Mainsforth
Malton (Lanchester)
Middridge
(Ferryhill)
Newbiggin
New Shildon
Pelton
Randolph
Ravensworth
Anne (Gateshead)
Ravensworth Park
Ravensworth Shop
Rising Sun (Wallsend)
Roddymoor
Ryhope
Seghill
Sherburn Hill
South Pelaw
Staindrop Field House
Stanley Burn
Stanley Cottage
Stargate
Tanfield Lea
Thrislington
Trimdon Grange
Tudhoe Mill
Tudhoe Park
Ushaw Moor
Washington F
Waterhouses
West Auckland
West Thornley
Wheatley Hill
Whitburn
Wingate Grange
Witton

Add all the ones In The Black Country and I reckon you've got a lot more than the 80s.

[maviczap]

You missed my point, why did Maggie shut down the profitable ones?

Yes the Unions did need sorting out, but why shut the profitable ones down, whilst they were making money?

Keeps people in a job and not on the dole

I don't have a problem with shutting down unprofitable ones down.

But as TAM said, there's plenty of coal under ground, so why import it

[andrewsmith]

Going off at a tangent
I know where most of them pits are/ were (East Walbottle is 5 minutes from my house) quite a lot of them were small pits serving the following in the area:

Stella Powerstations (North and South)
Lemington Cokeworks- inturn Lemington Glassworks

They cleaned up the land that the powerstation, cokework and graphite works was on and pulled about 100,000 ton of coal off the land and 1,000 ton of graphite (probably radioactive as most the gear made went to windscale)

[TamSV]

No argument that the unions needed to be sorted out. But they were. The NUM was crushed, and did more themselves than anyone else to ensure that was the case. Anything could have done to the industry after that.

I don't see the sudden loss of heavy industry in the UK, and the manufacturing base that supported it, as a good thing. Nor was it inevitable. There was a choice.

You could certainly argue coal-mining was, and would have continued to be, a declining industry - but a controlled landing might have been preferable to slamming it into the side of a hill.

[Supervox]

Originally Posted by maviczap

You missed my point, why did Maggie shut down the profitable ones?

Yes the Unions did need sorting out, but why shut the profitable ones down, whilst they were making money?

Keeps people in a job and not on the dole

I don't have a problem with shutting down unprofitable ones down.

But as TAM said, there's plenty of coal under ground, so why import it

Mrs T didn't shut / close down anything - the National Coal Board decided on the closures based on the millions being pumped into them to keep them operating.

[Messie]

This thread reminds me in many ways of the Easter and religion thread stated by Lozzo. The last couple of days have made me think long and hard about why I do not mourn the passing of Mrs Thatcher.
We can argue long and hard about whether what she did with the milk, the coal mines, the unions, was successful or right. Given the lack of rigorous, double blind randomised experimentation, the toss can ne argued about whether she was a good or bad thing until the cows come home.

I have come to the (reluctant) conclusion that is actually boils down to belief and emotion; as such neither can be judged to be right or wrong.

I hope that we can look on the resurrection of old debates with at least half an eye on the future. At the very least it has made me dig out some old tunes