General Election 2010

Originally Posted by plowsie

Believe me, it is.

No it's not. Tax avoidance is illegal, tax planning is not.

Originally Posted by Jabba

Yup, but more income also means more saving. Saving doesn't attract indirect taxation e.g. VAT.

Savings (except tax free ones which are limited) attract direct taxation removed at source by your bank. If you self assess, you have to declare this so they can take some more.

As for direct vs indirect taxation, if this kind of study is what you are referring to then yes the bottom 10% pay more, but the other 90% are nicely graded which shows the system works in general. Note that the bottom 10% are not in full time employment as the average earnings are below NMW.

So do you advocate a flat taxation system?

Edit: I can think of a number of reasons why the bottom decile could be misleading. The study (warning: left wing focus group) uses original income (salary, pension, investment income etc). If you live off capital, you can have a very low income by this measure, but a very high spending power. Not saying this is the whole story, but should be factored in.

Originally Posted by simesb

No it's not. Tax avoidance is illegal, tax planning is not.

If I had a pound for every time I heard that at my work, I'd be the one having to plan around the tax with my money.

Just looking about online, who is it that is offering £11,500 Tax free allowance and 31% flat rate tax and NI?

Originally Posted by simesb

Savings (except tax free ones which are limited) attract direct taxation removed at source by your bank. If you self assess, you have to declare this so they can take some more.

Other than tax-free savings (e.g. pensions), savings are made net of tax, i.e. from disposable income. It is the interest on those savings which is taxed at source.

My point is that you have to have spare disposable income in order to be able to save this way. Lower income group hardly save anything at all because they have to spend their money on normal living expenses. Most of these expenses are subject to indirect taxation.

Originally Posted by simesb

So do you advocate a flat taxation system?

No, of course not

What I am saying is that the more direct taxation of income, suitably graded according to income, the less need for indirect taxation. This would be fairer.

I'm not saying "no indirect taxation", though, e.g. taxing ciggies to fund the NHS would get my vote. As would hypothcating certain taxation income.

Originally Posted by Jabba

Other than tax-free savings (e.g. pensions), savings are made net of tax, i.e. from disposable income. It is the interest on those savings which is taxed at source.

Ah, I misunderstood your original post.

Originally Posted by Jabba

No, of course not

Why not - everybody pays x% on all "deemed income" and no indirect taxation. Everybody pays the same percentage - seems fair to me.

It only fails when the government try to use indirect taxation to control public habits - fuel usage, smoking, drinking.

Originally Posted by simesb

Why not

Because I believe that higher income groups should pay more tax.

[timwilky]

Sorry Jabba, must disagree.

Everyone should have a livable tax free allowance, say £15,000 after that charge everyone a single flat rate of 50%. allowances transferable between partners

chances are most households with a couple of kids would pay no tax, rich pay, middle income pays about what they currently pay

Originally Posted by Jabba

Because I believe that higher income groups should pay more tax.

Paying more gross is not a problem, paying vastly more as a percentage of income is (to me). Everybody works hard for their money, and I find it strange that people assume those on higher income should pay a high rate just because they earn more.

If the system becomes too skewed, as I said in an earlier post, it drives the wealth offshore where HMRC can't get their mitts at it at all. There are more accountants looking at how to avoid taxation than there are involved in the collection of it. The less fair it is (rate terms, not total contribution) the more people will look to avoid (not plan )

Ill vote BNP seeming as they will:

1. Raise speed limits on motorways
2. Keep our currency
3. Stop immigration completely
4. Bring back Corporal and Capital Punishment.

I feel these 4 things are what is needed in this country and this party is the only party to offer them.

[Dave20046]