City cars

[Seeker]

Does anyone have any experience of Asian city cars? I inherited my Dad's Yaris a couple of years ago, it's now 11 years old but has only done 34k miles. It's been fairly reliable although it requires a new a/c condensor at the moment which I'm not bothering to replace and the gearbox is awful (or, as Toyota describe it: normal). I'm thinking about changing it once lockdown ends or late Spring. I only use a car once or week or so - even less in lockdown so a city car will work well. An electric car would fit my needs but they're too expensive and electric cars tend to be bigger (to have space for the batteries?)

I've owned a few Toyotas over the years (and one Honda) and they have all been very reliable. I don't want a European car which makes buying an Aygo a bit problematic since they're assembled in the EU on the same production line as the Citroen C1/Peugeot108.

My neighbour has owned a couple of Kia Picanto and I've driven the newer one a couple of times and it seems ok - it has a 3 cylinder engine as do most city cars so it's not as smooth at idle. The gearbox is head and shoulders better than the Yaris - but I've driven an Aygo loaner car and that gearbox was better too (than the Yaris). She's not had any faults with either of her Picanto.

The Suzuki Ignis looks a bit different in this segment but is more expensive than a Toyota and I'm not sure they're as reliable.

[embee]

I'll just throw in my personal experiences FWIW.
I've been "looking after" 4 examples of the Aygo/107 over the last 7 or 8yrs for friends.
Things I've had to do -
one new rad (leaking header tank on an early 107, relatively common fault, later cars no issue), cheap and very easy to do, £50ish from Eurocarparts.
2 water pumps, again not that unusual but cheap and easy to do. Very early ones were a pressed steel backplate and problematic, later were cast alum and much better.
2 sets of front brakes, they rust when not in regular use, especially on the inside face as they don't have a shield. Cheap and easy to do, £70 for discs+pads.
1 indicator switch became intermittent, the contact surfaces get dirty (quite common issue). Pretty easy to take apart and clean contact strips, then no further problems, youtube tutorials invaluable.
1 hazard warning switch stopped working, fairly common fault, £20 from ebay supplier, 5mins to swap. Might be possible to take them apart to clean contacts but hardly worth the effort.
Water in rear lamp housing, again common, easily fixed with some silicone sealant to stop water running down from tailgate onto the back of the light unit.
Very early ones had tailgate leaks but I've not come across that.
Condensation in headlamps (2 cars), both caused when they had them washed at a carwash and they used pressure washers. Don't do it. Dried out and no further problem.
Rear brakes squeak when the dust needs brushing out, simple job.

They are cheap and cheerful cars, great for a runaround, good front seat space, surprisingly competent on motorways up to 70mph, pretty tinny in feel, a city car which has some faults but very easy to work on and cheap to fix the problems you might get. Very low running costs. Rather like a modern capable version of the original Mini, go-kart feel. I certainly wouldn't advise against one, running costs are very low even if you do need to fix a couple of things. Make sure the bodywork is clean.

The VW Up (and clones) gets rather better owner reviews, but slightly more expensive.

I looked into early Hyundai i10 examples for someone who wanted a very cheap car to sit at a second home. They had quite a lot of big-ish issues in the early days (brakes, suspension, electricals) looking at 10yr old car MOT histories. Later ones seem much improved.

[redtrummy]

Seem to recall that Suzuki do well in customer satisfaction surveys. The Lads fiancée has a Skoda Citygo 2012. That has been very good. In the 3 years we have known her the only problem has been a sticky handbrake in freezing conditions, which was resolved by greasing the friction points.

[Dave20046]

I know not a lot about electric/new models. But if I was getting a little run around and main priority was reliability I'd get a Honda (Jazz?) or Suzuki (Swift?). Last time I checked VW/Skoda build quality had dropped off but the price-tag hadn't. Not sure about Toyota's , Yaris used to be fairly bulletproof but toyota had the spate of recalls not tooo long ago. Nissan would be worth looking at too.

[embee]

Originally Posted by Dave20046

..... But if I was getting a little run around and main priority was reliability I'd get a Honda (Jazz?) or Suzuki (Swift?). ....

Swift is generally liked and good reliability levels.
The Mk1 (02-08 ) Jazz will get the catalyst cut off by pikeys (try a google search), the mk2 (08-15) was probably the most reliable version of all, but I'd say it is a good size up from a city car. I have a mk3 (facelift) 2018 Jazz and it is not a small car by any means, great if you want interior space but I wouldn't recommend it as a city car, if that's what you are really after (4m long, 1.7m wide, 1.5m high), a lot bigger than my mk1 Yaris.

[GeorgeRYoung]

My 2009 Yaris has about 130,000 km and seems to work fine. It's my only car, not just a city car. Plan to keep it running until it falls apart.


Gearbox is a 5-spd standard, seems ok.

[Seeker]

I had a really bad experience with a VW: 3 cylinder heads, new inlet valves, new crankshaft, new oil pump, frequent front suspension rebuilds, carburetor icing issues. All in 30k miles. I won't buy another VW/Audi/Skoda/SEAT, ever.
I liked the original Yaris - my Dad has had several Yarissss over the years - all have been reliable, but they've grown in size. His previous one was a 5 speed (1.3l) and it was much better than the 6 speed (1.33l) in terms of gearbox action. I added molyslip which has helped but it doesn't like cold weather, nor changing from 3rd to 2nd and occasionally neutral to 1st from a standstill (usually at traffic lights).

Originally Posted by embee

I'll just throw in my personal experiences FWIW.
I've been "looking after" 4 examples of the Aygo/107 over the last 7 or 8yrs for friends.

What kind of mileage are on these Aygos? I would expect a water pump to last 100k miles.

I was reading that Toyota were due to take over the Toyota/Peugeot/Citroen joint owned Czech assembly plant this year (2021) and the 108/C1 were going to be discontinued.

[embee]

The first water pump on a 107 was one of the early pressed steel ones, which leaked and was a relatively common problem. Mileage was somewhere round 30k I think (a long time ago now).
The other one on an Aygo was changed when the drive belt started occasionally squealing, one time the owner called out the AA who very competently assessed it, the belt was fine, and concluded it was most likely the water pump bearing based on their experience, other things like A/C compressor and alternator almost never give any issues on the Aygo apparently. I changed the pump and no further issues, not 100% certain that was the problem but very probable. I think it was around 30-40k mls. The later alum pumps are generally OK.

[ethariel]

What about the little Merc Smart cars, a lot of the newer models are electric?

[Dave20046]

Originally Posted by embee

Swift is generally liked and good reliability levels.
The Mk1 (02-08 ) Jazz will get the catalyst cut off by pikeys (try a google search), the mk2 (08-15) was probably the most reliable version of all, but I'd say it is a good size up from a city car. I have a mk3 (facelift) 2018 Jazz and it is not a small car by any means, great if you want interior space but I wouldn't recommend it as a city car, if that's what you are really after (4m long, 1.7m wide, 1.5m high), a lot bigger than my mk1 Yaris.

True I did wonder if I was suggesting cars that are too big. I test drove a newer Jazz for someone and it drove suprisingly well but I was well impressed with the interior space and seat folding down mech.
What's the positive of going for something smaller than Swift size, weight and fuel economy/tax? Parking spots? Pricetag? Safety? When I see the tiny little Lupo's etc I often think they'd need more mass in an accident or they'll just take the brunt of all energy an impact with a 'regular' car would generate - appreciate there's a good chance my physics may be way off.