Halal meat

[PyroUK]

Originally Posted by kaivalagi

I think anyone who can't kill an animal for food ought not to eat them.....

Not arguing but...

Can't or won't?

As I would readily do it if I had the opportunity but living in a large town with not much more than pigeons to shoot limits my ability a bit, so I am a can't, not a won't.

??

[MisterTommyH]

Wow hasn't todays news been thoroughly misreported and misunderstood.

The ONLY piece of news today regarding animal suffering was that New Zealand Lamb is almost all killed in a Halal way - no confirmation of whether the animal is stunned or not (although it probably isn't). This is because the majority of their product is exported to middle eastern islamic countries so it make economic sense to base their operation around this.... Lesson - if you don't like it, don't buy New Zealand Lamb.

All supermarkets offer 'own brand' meats originating in the UK. If you care about stunning buy British meat. It doesn't matter if it is Halal.

In Britain the Halal Meat Council has voted that it is acceptable for meat from stunned animals to be classes as Halal - therefore 90% of all British Halal meat is actually stunned. This is due to the fact that the Koran does not specifically say anything to forbid stunning, some people just choose to take a different interpretation (analogous to different views on the Burka, or Sharia Law).

All the meat for consumption in the UK is bled out - almost certainly through a slit throat - it's just that sometimes (most times) it's stunned first. A slit throat is not unique to Halal.

Assuming you accept all the above, the Halal process just means that a prayer is said at the slaughter. Does this really bother you? I couldn't care what anyone is saying while they slaughter my dinner.

The big misnomer is that this thread should probably be titled 'Kosher Meat'.
While 90% of Halal is stunned - 0% of Kosher is because, unlike the Koran, the Jewish texts do specifically prohibit stunning. And while Kosher animals are all killed un-stunned - Kosher practices do not permit the consumption of the hind quarters of the pig. Therefore the 'spares' are used in the rest of the food chains and you are far more likely to be consuming meat slaughtered in a questionable (to you) way from a Kosher source than a Halal source. But whats been in the news all day..... Sometimes I think I want to get off the world.

[kaivalagi]

Originally Posted by PyroUK

Not arguing but...

Can't or won't?

As I would readily do it if I had the opportunity but living in a large town with not much more than pigeons to shoot limits my ability a bit, so I am a can't, not a won't.

??

I mean "won't" of course, or "can't" if the opportunity is available to them, I should have been clearer, sorry

Pigeons aint worth it, not that great IMHO, maybe a local cat might taste a bit better but that's someones pet

Originally Posted by MisterTommyH

Assuming you accept all the above, the Halal process just means that a prayer is said at the slaughter. Does this really bother you? I couldn't care what anyone is saying while they slaughter my dinner.

It would if I were a practicing christian.

[PyroUK]

Originally Posted by kaivalagi

I mean "won't" of course, or "can't" if the opportunity is available to them

Pigeons aint worth it, not that great IMHO, maybe a local cat might taste a bit better but that's someones pet

Phew! Don't know what I'd do if I couldn't have bacon or steak any more!

Yeah so far I have only been successful at getting one pigeon in my garden. Didn't eat it though as I had to give it to my friend who fronted me the money for rifle. Since then there haven't been any! Thinking if I can get a few, or ten, they would make a half decent pie though!

[MisterTommyH]

Originally Posted by Spank86

It would if I were a practicing christian.

And if this was an argument being made then I might at least pay lip service to it, but I haven't heard that yet today, and I suspect you're playing devils advocate.

In any case thats bull (pun intended). No where in Christianity does it say that you can't eat anything except for meat on a Friday (and actually that a scaled back version of what should be full fasting).

Coming from a Catholic family (with actual Ordained Clergy in the family), I can tell you that this would not affect those members who practice, and that they would be perplexed at why it should affect anyone else.

Originally Posted by MisterTommyH

And if this was an argument being made then I might at least pay lip service to it, but I haven't heard that yet today, and I suspect you're playing devils advocate.

In any case thats bull (pun intended). No where in Christianity does it say that you can't eat anything except for meat on a Friday (and actually that a scaled back version of what should be full fasting).

As I said, IF, I don't believe in any of it but the issue remains there for some although they may not know it (probably don't, not many Christians are that conversant with the bible)

I would strongly advise not making statements like that before you've checked the bible, there's quite a few commandments about things you shouldn't eat since the Old Testament laws remain in force, and if you want a New Testament source then Corinthians is pretty clear about not eating meat dedicated to false idols or false gods which halal meat clearly would be.

Of course the bible also says don't go to church to pray but consistency never was a human trait.

[Bibio]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Islam

so it seems that a Muslim saying a prayer is actually saying a prayer for the Christians as well...

BTW i'm not religious but find religion a fascinating subject.

[MisterTommyH]

I accept your point, about sweeping statements.

But my intention when stating Christianity was to talk about modern Christian practices rather than the Bible, which is, by the Churches own admission, not to be taken literally.

Also I'm not sure I accept that the God of Islam would be considered a false God. Isaac and Ishmael were brothers - Their father talked to god - Ones descendants became the Jews, ones the Arabs. The God is the same - just a different manifestation / practice.

Overall my point is that a lot of people seem to have jumped on the bandwagon due to either misplaced animal welfare concerns, or an outright opposition to a culture / religion that is different, rather than because it actually affects them.

Originally Posted by Bibio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_Islam

so it seems that a Muslim saying a prayer is actually saying a prayer for the Christians as well...

BTW i'm not religious but find religion a fascinating subject.

It is true that the religions share a common root and that Islam could be seen as an extension of Christianity in the same way that Christianity can be seen as an extension of Judaism BUT Corinthians 10-19ish and the next few lines suggest that by virtue of it being a sacrifice Christians should not be taking part and that as it is a sacrifice it cannot be to god but to demons... Well demons or idols, I'd need to learn Greek Or Latin or possibly Aramaic to give you a clearer answer.