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Old 28-03-10, 01:47 PM   #1
timwilky
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Default how do you check after a service

Difficult one this.

Daughter boyfriend put his beamer in for a service yesterday. New pads, disks, rear shoes and 2 tyres.

On way home last night, fortunately only him in the car, he says brakes failed as he slowed for a bend.

He ends up in a tree, air bags fail to go off, front end is crushed and he is stuck with flames. Fortunately it appears somebody on scene had an extinguisher. cut out

confusion at the hospital. they phone the next of kin according to records, his wife (soon to be ex), who has to phone my daughter. Hospital will not tell her anything so other daughter is phoned to collect daughter 2 and take her upto hospital to see her boyfriend.

He is to have surgery today to pin his leg. but is adamant he wasn't speeding and the car failed to slow for a bend. his foot going straight to the floor.

bearing in mind there is substantial damage to the vehicle. Will anyone be bothered to examine the car to try to determine cause? I have suggested he instruct a professional automotive engineer to examine the vehicle.

1) why did the brakes fail
2) why did the airbags fail to deploy

Can anyone suggest anything else he should be doing. Obviously getting legal advice. But probably depending on the results of the engineers report.
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Last edited by timwilky; 28-03-10 at 01:49 PM.
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Old 28-03-10, 02:10 PM   #2
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Default Re: how do you check after a service

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Originally Posted by timwilky View Post
Can anyone suggest anything else he should be doing.
Not approaching corners so quickly...

I've spent a few days working with the accident investigation part of our company, one thing that I picked up was that something like 99% of "the brakes just failed" or "something broke and caused the car to swerve" cases turn out to be simply driver error and nothing mechanical failing

This is the line I'd anticipate his insurer taking, not sure if this would mean it would be up to him to commission something like an engineer's report to show that it was mechanical

If he was driving sensibly he should have had enough in reserve to make a pretty good stab at making it round the corner, I'd wager if he didn't make it a fair round he simply lost control

New pads and discs will need time to bed in, having fitted new rotors yesterday to the bike it's shocking just how little braking effect there is, because I was still on old pads temporarily the rear brake was stronger than the fronts, this may have meant the brakes felt like they failed, when in fact they were bedding in.

Add to that, modern cars have linked braking systems, with two circuits, each controlling one front and one rear wheel, if one system leaks or doesn't pressurise the other can provide braking force to stop the vehicle, both of these systems would have to fail at the same time to cause no braking effect

The airbags are a different matter, the car (if working correctly) would have determined if it was necessary to deploy the airbags based on the specific information it got in that particular crash, setting off explosions in people's faces is to be avoided if possible and all that - unless he has injuries to his face/neck/chest then perhaps they didn't deploy because the seatbelts would provide sufficient retardation to prevent injury?

Of course all this is all playing devil's advocate, but if I were a betting man I'd say it's likely he simply misjudged the lack of braking power on new parts while approaching a corner too fast and doesn't want to admit it...

Hope he heals up OK
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Old 28-03-10, 02:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: how do you check after a service

It is worthwhile saying at this point, I am by profession an automotive engineer even if I have not practised for quite a few years. Please note I said engineer not a mechanic.

I have over the years been commissioned by most UK insurance companies and quite a few manufacturers to provide vehicle inspections and act as an expert witness in the courts. I was for 20 years a partner in a consulting engineering practice. However, because of the family ties in this one I need to stand back.

Of course I am sceptical. I know how braking system work and the whilst there quite well have been a failure of one system there should have been partial braking, even in the event of a catastrophic failure. I have not had the opportunity to view the vehicle as it happened last night and the car has been recovered. I have arranged for the car to be moved to free storage as soon as we are able to establish its whereabouts.

As for the airbag failure? I know he has sustain glass cuts to his face, impact damage to his chest from the steering wheel. The major injuries at this time being both legs broken.

So I personally think there may be some whoppers. I know the road. it is a 30mph semi rural road. I know nobody there obeys the limit. there is only one corner. easily achievable at 30 so again sceptical.

I am not going to defend him. However, the question of my original post still applies. Who actually checks their car/bike etc after a service? how? etc. Is it implying that you do not trust your service technician and if so, why take it there in the first place.
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Old 28-03-10, 02:46 PM   #4
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Default Re: how do you check after a service

Fair point on the occupation, and I see why you don't want to get involved...

Quote:
Originally Posted by timwilky View Post
I am not going to defend him. However, the question of my original post still applies. Who actually checks their car/bike etc after a service? how? etc. Is it implying that you do not trust your service technician and if so, why take it there in the first place.
People make mistakes, even the best of us, and even the best mechanic isn't above doing a whoopsie if his mind is elsewhere

But brakes?? You'd kind of think they'd double check before they signed it off as complete, even if only to cover their asses should someone bin it a half mile down the road

I don't do a full road test after getting the car or bike serviced, but certainly within the first mile of taking things very steady you should be able to see if they/you have done something daft, and if there's new parts that need bedding in I'll take it easy for as long as is needed
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Old 28-03-10, 03:15 PM   #5
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Default Re: how do you check after a service

the police will only investigate the car if there is fatality, if not then its just the road ect that is investigated to try and determined what happened and if there was anyone else involved that fled the scene ect ect bla bla bla (i think!, i cant remember so don't quote me).

If you think there was something fubar with the brakes, make it known and to the insurance company and they should investigate into it to see if they can then sue/claim ect off the garage, if your not getting insurance involved i thinks its off your own back to get it investigated
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Old 28-03-10, 04:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: how do you check after a service

I don't own a cage and rarely drive one so the maintenance side of things are something I care not a lot about but don't airbags get put into some sort of maintenance mode when a cars getting serviced so they don't accidently go off
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Old 28-03-10, 04:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: how do you check after a service

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_lone_wolf View Post

But brakes?? You'd kind of think they'd double check before they signed it off as complete, even if only to cover their asses should someone bin it a half mile down the road
You would be seriously and unpleasantly surprised.

Car the other week in my mates garage, they'd driven it over from Lancashire to get an opinion they trusted on why the handbrake felt a bit weird and it was pulling under braking.

Previous large and "professional looking" garage had used prybar to get the drum off and bent the backplate out by an INCH! You could see the brake shoes looking at it with the drum fitted.

wonder why it was making a funny noise, sure that's an extreme example but there are some retarded b*st*rds out there. Look at the bike dealers who ran some buggers CBR6 without any oil in it for no fathomable reason other than stupidity.
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Old 28-03-10, 04:42 PM   #8
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Default Re: how do you check after a service

If it is a BMW main dealership who serviced and carried out the maintenance I would presume the car was road tested before returning it to the customer. On the other hand, I note that it seems a terrible result for a 30mph impact,considering he had a hand brake and gearbox to take a bit of speed off . Being sceptical as you so put it may be nearer the truth but still worthwhile getting an independent engineers report.
contact the Institute of Road Transport Engineers and I am sure the could provide
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Old 28-03-10, 05:01 PM   #9
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Default Re: how do you check after a service

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Originally Posted by yorkie_chris View Post
You would be seriously and unpleasantly surprised.
+1

Many years ago I took my little Peugeot to get it's MOT in Brackley, I was told I needed a new headlight and tyre.

Paid the man and was driving to Rugby when I had that 'wow, that tyre rolling up the road in front of me looks just like....aaargh it's my wheel' moment.
The muppet had tightened the nuts by hand and forgotten to use the air impact gun to complete the job.
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Old 28-03-10, 06:20 PM   #10
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Default Re: how do you check after a service

+2

Put my Vw Polo into a local garage, had a new brake hose put on the front.

About a month later, heading to a T junction my foot went to the floor and no retardation effect from the brakes. Luckily it was a small side street and I was only doing about 10mph and I turned into the kerb to halt my progress.

Took the car to another local garage and he found that my 'New' hose hadn't been secured in the hose guide and had been rubbing on the front disc, which eventually had cut through the hose
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