Smart meters

[Ruffy]

Originally Posted by redtrummy

I read the other day that a trial is about to commence where those EV owners that have signed up, have agreed to allow the lecy company to parasitically use the cars battery as a back up during high demand

Yep, from a pure electrical perspective, all those batteries 'just sat there' could be useful to provide grid resilience (i.e. to avoid another power station spinning 'just in case' there's a fault or sudden pickup). The risk of slightly longer overall charge times is unlikely to be critical for most vehicle users. There are practical concerns about the effects of discharge/recharge cycles on the batteries but I guess experiments will reveal data to assess that better.

For demand-side balancing, there have already been proposals for controlling the supply to cold stores, harnessing the benefit of thermal mass - cutting supply for a short period is unlikely to result in problematic temperature variation. It's even been mused that domestic fridges could be used in the same way (with enough numbers and control connection in place via 'internet of things' principles).

[Luckypants]

The idea of 'surge' pricing has been picked up by the media and whipped into a sensational headline. Whereas half hourly variable pricing has been available for two or more years from Octopus Energy, the tariff is called Agile. The attraction for many that bought into it was that overnight rates were very low and when there was a lot of wind, they would be PAID to take the electricity off the grid. This made it very popular with EV owners and folks who could shift most use away from peak periods. It has a price cap of 35p/kWh to protect people from excessive swings. Throughout 2021 the prices kept rising and the cap became a common price, the reason for this being the high wholesale price of energy. Many people switched away onto an EC specific tariff when the prices got steep, these customers were of course watching the wholesale prices closely, so saw the writing on the wall for the price jump.

https://octopus.energy/agile/

The link below shows the prices people are now paying on this tariff local to me, but you can have a poke about if interested to see historical rates etc.

https://agileprices.co.uk/?region=D

I cannot get a working smart meter at my house, so went onto a tracker product that used average wholesale prices to set my bills and this worked well until spring 2021. At that point I could see an inexorable rise in the prices and during August I was paying 25p. As I could see it was only going to get worse, I switched away to a cheaper 2 year fixed deal in the hope of riding out the price crunch.

So focus on the positives, if you get pushed onto a 'surge' pricing model, look at if it will allow you cheap(er) electricity at non-surge times and modify your use appropriately.

[Bibio]

is it just me or is anyone else getting the feeling that this is all to do with building more nuclear power stations.

why cant wind farms be made to charge battery fields. that way the turbines would never need to be turned off.

[Ruffy]

Originally Posted by Bibio

why cant wind farms be made to charge battery fields. that way the turbines would never need to be turned off.

Mainly because those battery fields don't exist yet!

On a similar theme, though, most of the business case considerations for North Sea interconnectors have included to some extent the concept that the wind-generated excess electricity in Scotland, or possibly the North Sea, could be used to provide power to pumped storage schemes in Norway. (Moving water up and down mountains, like Dinorwig, is equivalent to a lot of batteries!) In reverse, the hydro-electric power from Norway could supplement UK demand at times.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Bibio

why cant wind farms be made to charge battery fields. that way the turbines would never need to be turned off.

It is a direction that is being pursued:

https://www.smart-energy.com/industr...onal-grid-eso/

and:

https://w3.windfair.net/wind-energy/...tion-tender-pa

On another note the big 6 energy providers have made £7 billion profit over the last 5 years.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2013421.html

Isn't capitalism great (at times)?

[ethariel]

Triad charges will be coming, smart meters have made sure of that (businesses have been paying those for decades).

For what 20-25 years we were told 'gas heating, gas cooking its cheap!' and then oops!

I have to admit if I was still in a house of my own rather than rented I'd have solar up, batteries and a bloody turbine on a pole (that a year ago would never have paid for it's self but now....) and be seriously looking at ground sourced heat pumps and bye bye gas boiler and cooker. Anything to reduce my reliance on grid supplied energy.

[DJ123]

Originally Posted by ethariel

Triad charges will be coming, smart meters have made sure of that (businesses have been paying those for decades).

For what 20-25 years we were told 'gas heating, gas cooking its cheap!' and then oops!

I have to admit if I was still in a house of my own rather than rented I'd have solar up, batteries and a bloody turbine on a pole (that a year ago would never have paid for it's self but now....) and be seriously looking at ground sourced heat pumps and bye bye gas boiler and cooker. Anything to reduce my reliance on grid supplied energy.

Absolutely. I'd be investing in tech for energy independence, and ways to store it. Whilst it may cost a few quid upfront, long term the cost stabilises and you can be pretty self sufficient when it's all working properly & utilised to its maximum.

[svenrico]

I understood there is a problem in some cases with smart meters not being compatible with ground and air source heating systems .

[Luckypants]

The problem with a home battery and solar etc is the capital cost. Even now with 20 years of development you are looking at expensive bits of kit. Not many people can find the money. I've ben looking at it since the big power cut in November and finding it hard to justify.

[Ruffy]

Originally Posted by luckypants

the problem with a home battery and solar etc is the capital cost. Even now with 20 years of development you are looking at expensive bits of kit. Not many people can find the money. I've ben looking at it since the big power cut in november and finding it hard to justify.

Originally Posted by ruffy

arguably there's nothing to stop anyone going off-grid if they want. Except they tend to complain it's too expensive! So, in the face of that irony, is on-grid such a bad deal in fact? Perhaps the affordability problem is rooted elsewhere?

QED! (Sorry, couldn't resist blowing my own trumpet a bit.)

You're right LP, raising the initial capital is more challenging for individuals than corporations it seems. Even a self-financing debt goes against credit ratings and bank loan computers only follow primitive rule-sets.