Guy Martin vs David Coulthard (Speed F1 Special)

[Ch00]

I watched it last night. Typical C4 programme. Was good but it could have been done in 30 mins!

[Red ones]

I thought it was 30 minutes, but padded by 20 mins of adverts.

I've seen F1 cars having stopping challenges before and performing worse than expected, apparantly they're unpredictable in maximum braking under 40mph because of little aero assistance, if they did the brake test from 150mph I reckon the car would have really outperformed the bike. An hour program for 5mins of competition was always going to drag slightly.

[ophic]

Originally Posted by AlexAdams

I've seen F1 cars having stopping challenges before and performing worse than expected, apparantly they're unpredictable in maximum braking under 40mph because of little aero assistance, if they did the brake test from 150mph I reckon the car would have really outperformed the bike. An hour program for 5mins of competition was always going to drag slightly.

I'm sorry Officer, my car just isn't designed to do less than 40mph...

[ogden]

Originally Posted by Red Herring

Actually the more I think about it Guy may have done even better on a standard road bike. Given he was running treaded road tyres on a slightly damp track (the F1 car was on wets) then in both the drag and braking test the standard bikes ABS, traction control and anti-wheelie might have been useful. Am I right in thinking a BSB Superbike or Superstock bike isn't allowed these, even if they are on the original road bike?

Rules for Superstock are that the electronics have to be as per the homologated model and can't use non-standard firmware. If that includes a quickshifter, anti-wheelie, traction control, etc. then it's allowed. If it doesn't, it's not. Non-standard quickshifters can be added to the big bikes but not 600s, and any extra goodies like Power Commanders can only be used for fuel mapping, not to add, replace or complement other functions. Rules for Superbike impose a spec ECU.

This can lead to an odd situation where Superstock class machines have more advanced electronics than Superbike or Supersport class machines, but that's how the rules are written.

I thought the whole show was pretty weak, to be honest. I know it was little more than a puff piece for C4's F1 coverage, but an S1000RR is hardly a YZR-M1. It's down on power, has weaker brakes, simpler electronics, and was never going to stand a chance against the RBR on acceleration or braking, let alone lap times, though I was surprised by how well it stopped. It was about as valid a comparison as putting a MotoGP bike up against a hatchback from BTCC, and GM's cheeky-chappy routine has descended into full-blown self-parody.

Incidentally, I'm pretty sure Guy wasn't on treaded road tyres. I've just skimmed through the whole thing looking for clear shots of tyres. He was on inters (almost certainly Pirelli Diablo Wets) for the drag race and braking contest, had a slick fitted when Coulthard did the wheel swap, and was on full rain tyres (either Pirelli Diablo Rain or the Metzeler equivalent) for the slalom. When they were wheeling the bike back in after the race it had an inter on the front and when they put it on the stand it had a slick on the back. I'm slightly surprised they were using Pirellis when the bike's plastered with Metzeler stickers, but it's the same company so hey ho.

Even if he was on road-legal treaded tyres, trust me, there's a big difference between a race compound Supercorsa and the rubber you'd want on a road bike. Not that that stops me using up old race tyres on my KTM - they're the same size, after all!

[Red Herring]

I'm not going to dispute anything you say about the technicalities Ogden, you're clearly more up on them than I am, however I'd still argue the 1/4 mile result would not have been different regardless of what bike or tyre combination he used. With what he was using he was able to get a good launch ahead of the F1 car so no issue with traction, and he had enough power to keep the front wheel lifting all the way to the end. More power or a lighter bike (as in a MotoGP machine) wouldn't have made enough difference over the distance they covered.

With regard to the braking then this is a similar argument in reverse. If Guy had been sliding around on the brakes then we could discuss equipment but as it was he was pretty much lifting the rear wheel all the way in so he didn't have a shortage of grip or brake power. Again weight would make a slight difference, (remember there is about 15kg between a MotoGP bike and the BMW) but not enough to reverse the distance he was beaten by.

[dizzyblonde]

Well I found the programme

....pretty boring tbh.

[chris8886]

have just watched it on catchup, I enjoyed it and guy martin is just such a personality. such a shame the track was a touch wet, I would've loved to see it all happen on a nice warm and dry track, although I doubt the results would've been much different....

[SV650rules]

on acceleration and braking, and also top speed things looked pretty comparable, the only thing the car really had an edge with was cornering speed, basically because of downforce aerodynamics the F1 'driver' can just pile into a corner at pretty much full speed, knowing that the extra tyre contact area added to the massive downforce will get them through. Bikes are limited by lean angle and a teensy weensy contact patch.

Take the wings off the F1 car and re-run the competition.

I think modern F1 racing is a few steps down from 'watching paint dry' on the scale of interesting things to watch, bring back the V10 / V12 engines (if just for their awesome sound) and ditch all the driver 'aids' . In a MotoGP, WSB, BSB race you can have the lead or positions change many times in a lap, in F1 ? well its a bit of a procession really, the pit stop strategy has more effect on result than the driver.

[ogden]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

On acceleration and braking, and also top speed things looked pretty comparable ... Bikes are limited by lean angle and a teensy weensy contact patch.

And the relatively high centre of gravity.

Given sufficiently wide tyres, a long enough wheelbase, and a low enough centre of gravity, a car will always out-brake, out-accelerate and out-corner a bike. The only advantage the bike has is its mass, and even that is limited by the other factors.