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Old 12-05-14, 08:35 AM   #101
thulfi
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Default Re: Halal meat

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Originally Posted by yorkie_chris View Post

They're bred for meat, their fate is pretty sealed from birth..
One could argue that is the ultimate evil right there. If you don't see meat as a necessity, a comparison could be the unlawful killing of a fellow human being for no reason. What is worse, the fact that you have deprived them of life or the method in which you do it?

Once again, I go back to the fish argument. They are not bred for meat. They're swimming along happily, until we choke them to death slowly. Yet for many people this is hardly a big deal, whereas slitting a throat is. When logic doesn't add up in such arguments, you wonder why halal really gets all the stick.
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Old 12-05-14, 08:43 AM   #102
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Default Re: Halal meat

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Originally Posted by yorkie_chris View Post
They're bred for meat
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Originally Posted by thulfi View Post
One could argue that is the ultimate evil right there. If you don't see meat as a necessity, a comparison could be the unlawful killing of a fellow human being for no reason. What is worse, the fact that you have deprived them of life or the method in which you do it?
Deprived them of the life they would not have had, as the only reason they're born in the first place is to give us meat.

Their death is inevitable. How they live and how they die are the only variables here. I don't see any point in inflicting needless suffering on any animal, regardless of whether it's for food or research or whatever.

Fish don't count, they're too ugly
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Old 12-05-14, 08:45 AM   #103
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Default Re: Halal meat

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One could argue that is the ultimate evil right there. If you don't see meat as a necessity, a comparison could be the unlawful killing of a fellow human being for no reason. What is worse, the fact that you have deprived them of life or the method in which you do it?

Once again, I go back to the fish argument. They are not bred for meat. They're swimming along happily, until we choke them to death slowly. Yet for many people this is hardly a big deal, whereas slitting a throat is. When logic doesn't add up in such arguments, you wonder why halal really gets all the stick.
Fish are more different from us than animals like cows or sheep (other mammals essentially), the more we differ from something the less empathy we have for it.

Amounts of empathy for any given thing may vary but that's the essence.

My argument for why killing an animal is ok but killing a human is wrong is simply that I don't have a reciprocal social contract with animals.
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Old 12-05-14, 08:53 AM   #104
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Default Re: Halal meat

I really couldn't care less how it was killed. What drives me nuts is suddenly people are going crazy on social media about how this country has gone to pot because we kill out meat so the muslims can be happy.

Nobody really, apart from those Animal Welfare dudes and dudettes (and fair play to them) cared how our meat was killed. I do not know anybody who has ever asked the question of how their meat was killed.

It now comes out, that some chains are using halal meat; it makes business sense for sure if you have any muslim customer base, but regardless, who knows whether they actually did anything different before? I can't say that I've looked, and if people didn't care to ask before, then the only conclusion that really can be drawn from it all is that people are annoyed because it is related to Islam.

Regardless of what you want to call it, it is probably the same way as it was done in the good old days. I've heard people arguing it is against Christianity to eat Halal meat...pfft whatever. If people really cared that much, either go vegan or start raising your own animals to slaughter. Be interesting to see how they kill them....
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Old 12-05-14, 09:06 AM   #105
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Default Re: Halal meat

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I really couldn't care less how it was killed. What drives me nuts is suddenly people are going crazy on social media about how this country has gone to pot because we kill out meat so the muslims can be happy.

Nobody really, apart from those Animal Welfare dudes and dudettes (and fair play to them) cared how our meat was killed. I do not know anybody who has ever asked the question of how their meat was killed.

It now comes out, that some chains are using halal meat; it makes business sense for sure if you have any muslim customer base, but regardless, who knows whether they actually did anything different before? I can't say that I've looked, and if people didn't care to ask before, then the only conclusion that really can be drawn from it all is that people are annoyed because it is related to Islam.

Regardless of what you want to call it, it is probably the same way as it was done in the good old days. I've heard people arguing it is against Christianity to eat Halal meat...pfft whatever. If people really cared that much, either go vegan or start raising your own animals to slaughter. Be interesting to see how they kill them....
I know I'm being a tad lazy again but yep, that's about the A-Z of the frenzy imo

Perhaps, Kosher meat would be the one to get the next big attack
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Old 12-05-14, 09:46 AM   #106
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Default Re: Halal meat

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Perhaps, Kosher meat would be the one to get the next big attack
The difference being Kosher meat is not only acceptable to Christianity, it's actually what they SHOULD be eating, it only fell by the wayside because it was a barrier to getting converts.
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Old 12-05-14, 11:11 AM   #107
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Default Re: Halal meat

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you wonder why halal really gets all the stick.
simple, because of cnuts like the daily mail inciting xenophobia in loads of bellies sat on their ****-stained sofas waving cans of lager at match of the day.
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Old 12-05-14, 11:47 AM   #108
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I get your statement Dave and I do credit that to some portion of the current hype.
However if I'm one person in the percentage then there will be others like me who would agree. Prior to the recent social media attention its been getting I lived in blissful ignorance.
Ok I knew Halal meant it had it throat slit and ok I knew it needed to be drained, I know all that before but I IGNORANTLY ASSUMED the animal would be at peace before these events occurred.
Now I am aware I'm disgusted, not just in the act of doing it but in that nothing has previously been done to stop it happening this way in this "great" country.
The same country where you go to jail for mistreating a pet, this same country that banned fox hunting and this same country that has charity organisations set up for the welfare of animals. I find it stunning that they're happy for still conscious (and thats the key bit for me) animals are subjected to this method of been terminated.

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Old 12-05-14, 05:34 PM   #109
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Default Re: Halal meat

Matt, I'm in total agreement with you, animals suffer just for a fictitious religious belief, I don't care in other countries, but the rules should be obeyed in this country not bent just for one religion or minority.

If you want real cruelty, you should see how the Koreans prepare dogs for food, they hang it up in a tree alive and beat it with a bat to tenderise it before killing it, I seen it years ago on a program and that image has haunted me ever since, wish I'd never seen it.

I accept we're higher up the food chain but if the pain of death can be kept to an absolute minimum then we should do it, regardless of religion or other bolox.
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Old 12-05-14, 05:50 PM   #110
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Default Re: Halal meat

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The comparison should be getting a kicking then being killed. Giving a cow a bit of a shoeing isn't going to put it on your plate is it?

They're bred for meat, their fate is pretty sealed from birth. What's your argument, that you could butcher it live and it wouldn't be any worse because murder is the ultimate evil? Don't be daft.
Not quite. More the original point of stunned and throat slit vs just throat slit. It's not worth arguing about. Slowly dismembered alive might need addressing though.
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