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Old 09-05-18, 08:32 AM   #21
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

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Originally Posted by Littlepeahead View Post
I'm afraid that isn't a rule, it's a guideline. I did a SAC about 18 months ago. At the start they read out how much we were each over the limit. I was in a class with people who got done doing 33 in a 30 and 77 on the M25.

Essex police are strict and said that the 10% + 2 is a myth. They can enforce the speed limit. And they don't have to offer you a course, even if your licence has previously been clean for years.

My misdemeanor was doing 37 through the Blackwell tunnel in the car. It's 40 either side, drops to 30 in the tunnel and I was going at the same speed as everyone else so I suspect a lot of people get caught out. I now don't assume I can add a few miles on to allow for my speedo plus extra percentages.

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Well the speed awareness course I did, with an ex copper of 50 years who now spends his life teaching these courses, said it wasn't a myth.

So I guess we'll never know.

And tbh...I don't care. I accidentally broke the speed limit as I genuinely had no idea it was a 20 zone, and I sure won't do it again - so the course has worked and was a positive eye opener. I think it should be part of the driving/riding test to be put through one of these courses - there's insight there that is way beyond what gets taught in either a theory or lessons leading up to a practical.
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Old 09-05-18, 08:33 AM   #22
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

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I got a new car last week. I'm still impressed by the button that limits the car to the speed limit.
I can see automated speed limitation of cars and bikes becoming the norm in the very near future. In all honesty, I'm blown away it's not happened already. Regardless of what people think, coppers aren't revenue agents, they genuinely want people to be safe - and not have to report the death of a loved one due to speeding/careless/drunk driving, etc.
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Old 09-05-18, 09:21 AM   #23
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

Well CC Anthony Bangham caused a mighty backlash when he advocated fining drivers who went 1mph over the posted speed limit, other Police obviously told him it was unenforceable because the accuracy of equipment would be questioned every time and probably too many cases would end up in court which would block up the system. There is an 'allowance' for a reason, vehicle speedometers are not calibrated, and sometimes the Cameras and laser units aren't either, so if you go to court you can ask for a current calibration certificate for the unit used.

As speed bumps, chicanes and other 'traffic calming' street furniture are removed from our streets they are being replaced with 20 mph limits, so we have to be wary in any town or village now for new 20 limits. I impose a 20 limit on myself in our 30 mph housing estate because of kids (road runs past a kids playground) and animals - and narrow roads (not even wide enough to get a centre white line) with cars parked all over the place, and some people still sit on your rear bumper, and you see a lot of parents going over 30 LOL.

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...rapped-cars-UK

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...er-driver-doi/
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Last edited by SV650rules; 09-05-18 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 09-05-18, 10:13 AM   #24
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

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I can see automated speed limitation of cars and bikes becoming the norm in the very near future. In all honesty, I'm blown away it's not happened already. Regardless of what people think, coppers aren't revenue agents, they genuinely want people to be safe - and not have to report the death of a loved one due to speeding/careless/drunk driving, etc.
So ask yourself this, genuinely. How many of us would bother riding bikes recreationally if either every time you went over a speed limit you automatically got fined, or all bikes were physically restricted from being able to break speed limits? Nobody goes out and buys a Fireblade or an R1 because they intend sticking to the upper speed limits. My personal moral compass means I'm pretty good at observing limits in built up areas, not because I necessarily think it's dangerous to exceed them in certain places but because I take a certain amount of pride in my riding and discipline is part of the process, but if I were being truthful, and I am, the national speed limit doesn't feature very much in my riding plans.

You're spot on saying coppers aren't revenue agents, but it's not them imposing the vast majority of speeding fines. Most coppers (there are always exceptions) apply a certain amount of common sense and look at time and place, and although over my career I certainly issued my fair share of tickets they were seldom for speeding. It might have said "excess speed" in the box, but that's only because it wasn't big enough for me to fit in "Riding like a ********...."

Speed enforcement is dealing with the symptom, not the cause and it makes pretty much no difference whatsoever to road safety, not in the big picture.
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Old 09-05-18, 10:15 AM   #25
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

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I can see automated speed limitation of cars and bikes becoming the norm in the very near future.
This. I don't know about the near future but I can see it coming. These may well be the last years of the Golden Age of driving freedom.

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Old 09-05-18, 10:19 AM   #26
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

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<snip> Regardless of what people think, coppers aren't revenue agents, they genuinely want people to be safe - and not have to report the death of a loved one due to speeding/careless/drunk driving, etc.
Unfortunately, most speed partnerships aren't run by coppers these days. They're run by bureaucrats.


The margin of 10%+2mph comes from the ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) guidelines on speed enforcement. These recommend that a NIP be issued when this margin is exceeded. Some years back this went through the courts. IIRC the judge said that to promote consistent policing the ACPO guidelines should be followed barring exceptional circumstances. Unfortunately, I can't find the case details.


Edit: Found the 2015 guidelines online:

http://library.college.police.uk/doc...t-Guidance.pdf

Note particularly paragraph 9.7, "These guidelines do not and cannot replace police officer's discretion".

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Old 09-05-18, 10:36 AM   #27
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

When Speed Awareness courses were first introduced they were intended to divert prosecutions, however they also had to pay for themselves so the ACPO guidelines were generally ignored because they argued they weren't issuing an NIP...... For a while you got away with telling them to poke it if you were offered a course when caught below the guidelines, but that didn't last long because business managers run them, not ACPO officers.... Just remember who pulls the strings, chief constables are now appointed (and sacked) by a locally elected commissioner who basically makes him (or her) jump through whatever hoop happens to further their political career, and 5h1t only flows one way!
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Old 10-05-18, 05:05 PM   #28
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

I also was done for 33.5 in a 30 limit at the bottom of a steep hill in Norwich. Extremely difficult to keep within 30 down the hill in the car. Easier on the bike; love the sv engine braking.
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Old 12-05-18, 11:06 PM   #29
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

33.5 is kind of taking the pish... I got caught at 53, and took it on the chin. I was kind of being a bit of a nobber.

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Old 13-05-18, 11:31 AM   #30
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Default Re: Oh no, not again (speeding)

I thought so too. And the speed awareness course was three hours I'll never get back. There was nothing in the course that I wasn't already aware of as I had only taken the bike test 2 years before and had done extensive revision beforehand on top of the 45 years driving a car.
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