Any dog experts/dog whisperers on here?

Need a bit of advice (for my mum).

To cut a very long story short:
She bought a ****-zu (sp?) about 18 months to 2 years ago, as a pup. She has never really trained him and after having him 6 month bought another puppy, to keep him company...yeah that's what I thought.

Anyway, she has now had both of them done (bits chopped off etc.), but the male one is a bit growly and has had a few nips at people and even bitten her and has no recall what so ever.

I think this is just because she hasn't trained him properly and treats them both like babies, I have seen him growling but never more than that.

After he bit her this week she is wanting to get him rescued, but apparently the rescue place she spoke to said 'no' and also apparently said that 'it sounds genetic and he will always be like that!'...

That seems a bit harsh to me, but not being an expert I can't argue.

I have offered (subject to conditions) that we could take him off her hands for a short while and try to train him properly for her as we would be very clear in showing him his place in the pack! But obviously she (and me) are a bit anxious as we have two kids 7 & 11.

So what do you experts think? I mean seriously he is a small dog, who just needs to be taught his place - Right?

Originally Posted by krhall

Need a bit of advice (for my mum).

To cut a very long story short:
She bought a ****-zu (sp?) about 18 months to 2 years ago, as a pup. She has never really trained him and after having him 6 month bought another puppy, to keep him company...yeah that's what I thought.

Anyway, she has now had both of them done (bits chopped off etc.), but the male one is a bit growly and has had a few nips at people and even bitten her and has no recall what so ever.

I think this is just because she hasn't trained him properly and treats them both like babies, I have seen him growling but never more than that.

After he bit her this week she is wanting to get him rescued, but apparently the rescue place she spoke to said 'no' and also apparently said that 'it sounds genetic and he will always be like that!'...

That seems a bit harsh to me, but not being an expert I can't argue.

I have offered (subject to conditions) that we could take him off her hands for a short while and try to train him properly for her as we would be very clear in showing him his place in the pack! But obviously she (and me) are a bit anxious as we have two kids 7 & 11.

So what do you experts think? I mean seriously he is a small dog, who just needs to be taught his place - Right?

As someone who can give his dog a verbal command to drop a piece of meat that he has already started eating, and the dog will drop it on the floor, sit down and wait for the command to pick it up and start eating it again....

No, personally I wouldn't bring that dog into a household with a 7 year old.

You are absolutely right about treating the dog like a baby.

You think you can train the dog, when it comes to dominance issues and pack hierarchy it's not something that can be 'trained' out of a dog. It won't make any difference when you give it back to your Mum. Dogs live in the moment and react to the situation they find themselves in, therefore it's your Mum that needs the training.

[Winder]

I have no idea about this breed but have been involved with Czech wolfdogs, Alaskan Malumutes, Huskies, GSDS and other breeds since I was a kid and the one thing that I see people get wrong ALL THE TIME is treating a dog like a human. IT'S A DOG!

Taking them for hard, fast walks then giving them their food they feel like they have worked for it. Give them treats/attention when they obey a command and they feel they earned it. Disobey means punishment.
Dress it up, let it sleep on your bed, don't exercise it, give it constant attention, let it beg and feed it if it does. All these things result in a dog that thinks its boss.

Sounds like he is just trying to show his dominance to the new pup. Put him in his place.
I'm no expert but you can find out a lot about dog behaviour and particular breeds online.

Also, this dog has problems already without being introduced to your kids.

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Dogs live in the moment and react to the situation they find themselves in, therefore it's your Mum that needs the training.

+1. I have had this same issue with our German Shepherd when it comes to general behaviour outside in public. With me he would be good as gold off the lead, no anxiety, no signs of stress, just content to amble along. Just because he was disciplined, he knew he would get let off the lead as a reward at some point. Just a firm voice correcting him everytime he pulled/jumped in front of me etc. With my mum it was a different story, he'd pull all over the place, bark at everything and generally act a more anxious dog in her presence.

She mollycoddled him and it was as if all my hard work went out of the window. She finds it hard to discipline him and he is a big dog so it's vital. She was petrified of him attacking another dog and even now she still crosses the road to avoid people and dogs. This was transmitted through the lead though and made him more agitated when really he could be fine and not bat an eyelid with me. I didn't like seeing this "different" dog. He's mellowed a lot now as he's a lot older but it did used to wind me up!


Unfortunately having left it until your mum has been bitten she will now be naturally nervous of the dog which will make training it (herself ) properly a much harder job But if she wants to keep the dog she will need to "grow some balls" for want of a better term, face the fears and show it who's boss

I wouldn't risk taking it in with kids about.

My kids are actually very good with the dog and know how to handle it and are always pulling my mum up for her inconsistent approach.

I'm not a massive dog lover, but feel that it isn't the dogs fault it is my mum's fault.

She now doesn't trust him and as you quite rightly said she will be transmitting that through the lead.

My eldest would train him perfectly in no time, but as also mentioned we'd give him back and he'd slip back to old ways.

[Fallout]

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

therefore it's your Mum that needs the training.

+2 for this too. There has to be someone in the family who completely dominates the dog, otherwise it will dominate you. If your mum lives by herself and isn't up to this job, she'll always have problems. Fail to dominate the dog and it's then luck of the draw as to whether she gets an annoying top dog (begging, disobeying commands, stealing food), or an aggressive top dog (growling biting). So it is down to the dogs genetics that it's acting the way it is, but it certainly would be different if it knew it's place.

You definitely have to train your mum mate. Whether you can or not, only you know! But dogs definitely have a happier life with a firm but fair master and a set of consistent rules, because confusion and confrontation makes them anxious. Maybe you can use that argument to try and get her to change.

So what about if we trained her dog for a short period then showed her how we treated it? I had a long chat with her last night about 'babying it' and the way she treats it and it seemed finally to get through, but I feel as though she needs some sort of demonstration to give her some confidance.

By and large the dogs have been good for her as she was a bit lonely and not very active, she has a new set of friends up the park and is fitter than I have seen her in a long long time, so I would prefer for her to stick with it, if only for the sake of her health.

[gruntygiggles]

In short, I am no expert, but have helped lots of people with their problems...not the dogs.

As Ralph has said, they live in the moment. They are reactionary animals, so their behaviour will be determined by what is happening in the world around them.

It is always the owner/handler that dictates the way a dog behaves. Genetics have no bearing on whether or not a dogs behaviour can be modified imo.

There are loads of things your mum can do, but if you speak to her today, before you learn those things, tell her to ignore the dogs and start now.

Both of them. No looking at them or talking to them, if they jump on her lap, tell her to just get up and move. If they jump up when she gets their food, tell her to look at the ceiling and stay completely quiet, just turning away if they jump at her.

There is more, but as a start, ignoring the dogs is far and away the best thing to do for them and your mum. It isn't easy when she will want cuddles, but it is what dogs NEED. They are not human. They thrive on having a place in the pack. If they are allowed to take the place of leader, they will have a very stressed and anxious existence. If your mum makes herself that leader, all the stress will be taken away from the dogs and they won't have any need to try and protect your mum, fight for the leader position etc.

I am very confident that if your mum does this and just ignores the dogs, she will notice a difference really quickly. No treats, no cuddles, no going on furniture, upstairs, on the bed etc. It is good to have at least one room in the house that the dogs are not allowed in.

Your mum doesn't have to ignore them forever, but she does need to discipline herself that the dogs cannot get food or cuddles until they have earned them. They need a routine where they have to earn that affection and affection to a dog can be as simple as feeding it.

No treats, no sneaky cuddles for the first week. Up, walk, ignore, let out for wees, ignore, let out for wees, ignore. When feeding, make up the feeds, stand holding them in front of the dogs until they calm down and sit, then they can eat. Then ignore, let out or walk, ignore, bed, wake up, ignore, walk, ignore and so on.
8Put simply, for the first week, the dogs get no cuddles or attention AT ALL. If she can do that, post up in a week if she has seen. Change.
Your mum, after a day or two will have two dogs wondering what the hell has happened, always looking at her and waiting for her next move.
Put simply, when the dogs see your mum be so calm and distant, they will be more confident in her ability to look after them and will be more relaxed and at ease.

I have given this advice as it is all non confrontational, however, I feel strongly that your mum would be better served getting. Professional in to help her.

I am not a professional. I have helped lots of dogs by teaching their owners...but I am just someone who has learned from experience. We have four, so it is constant work in this house, but...it means it is very easy to see how our behaviour as owners dictates the behaviour of our dogs.

But, I say again...get a professional in. The ignore method is just the safest way for your mum to give them what they need and not put herself at risk.

[gruntygiggles]

Hard to type from phone so sorry about repeating myself, typos.

Yes, you could train them and then train her, but that is double the stress and anxiety for the dogs and all that stress in dogs around children is not worth the risk imo. Size doesn't matter. Any dog can give a nasty bite and sometimes the dogs warning is silence, not growling, kids can easily miss it and end up hurt.

Some dogs just cannot be trained. My dog, Terry, is an example.
We've had him since he was a two month old puppy and he has been
biting us (+ other people + attacking horses + killing cats,
badgers, fish etc) ever since. We've kept him on the leash since he
turned one year old and we never allowed small children to visit our
house.

The good news is that they normally calm down with age. Terry is now
14 and the only person he really goes for is the postman. Grabbed
the postman's pants this December when my wife was giving him (the
postman) his Xmas present. Fortunately, our postman has excellent
reflexes so no blood was spilled on that occasion.

Here is Terry' photo from when he was younger: