Legalities of HP and Previous Owners?

Just had a phone call from a work colleague.

He bought a bike from a 'friend'. He has had it for over a year as it has had two MOT's on it during his ownership.

The 'friend' has sent him a text tonight asking for the bike back because the baliffs have been there. They have said they will 'sort the money out later'. Yes, of course they will.

Now here is the question. If the bike has outstanding HP, I think it is owned by the HP company. Is this right? If so, where does he stand? Can the bike be taken from him, even though the debt is the previous owners?

I have already advised him to seek legal advise tomorrow, but in the meantime I pass it over to the 'org...

Where does he stand?

[the_lone_wolf]

Originally Posted by amnesia

Can the bike be taken from him, even though the debt is the previous owners?

Unfortunately I think so yes

The bike wasn't the previous "owner"'s to sell - it belonged to the HP company

Caveat Emptor applies - always get an HPI check done, even if it's a "friend"


edit to add:

Where does he stand?

At the bus stop now...

[tigersaw]

Of course the HP company have to find it first.. be jiggered if I would hand it over

Hide it somewhere away from his/her house. If said friend does not sort out the financials within a set period of time, break the bike and sell the parts (obviously can't do much about the frame/engine) but can the rest.

F*ck legalities, make sure your friend looks after #1.

[yorkie_chris]

Yeah go take him the frame back and rebuild it around a (clean) ebay frame.

Let the bailiffs squabble over where the rest of it's gone, as far as your mate is concerned he gave him a whole bike back.

Originally Posted by instigator

Hide it somewhere away from his/her house. If said friend does not sort out the financials within a set period of time, break the bike and sell the parts (obviously can't do much about the frame/engine) but can the rest.

F*ck legalities, make sure your friend looks after #1.

Too right. If the original guy who bought the bike on HP was stupid enough not to pay it off, despite getting the money from selling it on, then no way would I be inclined to give it back to him to 'sort out later'.

[keith_d]

If he doesn't have the money to sort out the HP company now, what are the prospects for getting it sorted out later??

[Red Herring]

Some great advice there, but not necessarily complete. I do think if you suggest someone do something you ought at least to mention the possible consequence of such action.

Your colleagues mate technically broke the law selling the bike without settling the HP first. Such things go on all the time and are generally treated as a civil debt and something for the finance company to sort out themselves. It doesn't however change the status of the bike, which will always remain "stolen" no matter how many hands it subsequently passes through. This is not a problem for your colleague unless he acts dishonestly, it's all in the state of mind. So far he bought in good faith, and kept the bike in good faith. He now knows the position regarding the bike, so his state of mind changes. He has what is known as guilty knowledge. If he acts dishonestly in retaining the bike (hiding it to prevent return to rightful owner) or disposing of it (selling it, breaking it, or even technically returning it to his mate now he know he doesn't even own it) then technically, and I do mean a very tenuous technically, he is getting into the realms of handling stolen goods. It's a very thin one, but nevertheless ought to be mentioned.

I advised him to get it out of sight for now, answer the door to no-one and to do a HPI check last night. Still waiting to hear the outcome of that. It is possible that the bike doesn't have a loan secured on it at all, and his 'mate' is trying to pull a fast one.

Wait and see I guess.

correct, unless the HP is secured on the bike the bike belongs to whoever is the legal owner (not always the V5 holder)

If it was a loan or unsecured HP then he can walk, if it was HP secured to the bike hand him the frame and tell him to do one..