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Old 24-02-19, 01:41 PM   #11
SV650rules
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Default Re: Removing Exhaust Bolts

If the worst happens and bolt shears .... take seekers advice and try LH twist drills, need to reverse your drill rotation but the LH twist will try to unscrew the bolt as it rotates.

These HSS drills may be OK for stainless but better to get cobalt ones like second link below if you can as cobalt stronger and also stays sharper and has a better 'bite' than HSS,

https://www.bearingboys.co.uk/Sealey...yABEgLxnvD_BwE

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-HSSE-C...r=553308617730


Here is something I found out using impact drivers -
I find R and L markings a bit ambiguous, are they for Right or Left Hand thread or for Right or Left rotation of bit ?

I found the best way is to put screwdriver or hex bit etc. bit into screw head and firmly turn body of driver , turn it both ways to check its movement and body will turn relative to the bit and click into position at the R or L detent, the last time you turn it should be the way you want screw to turn (normally anticlockwise as you don't normally tighten right hand threads with the impact driver, except if you want to turn bolt a bit to break corrosion grip).
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Last edited by SV650rules; 24-02-19 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 24-02-19, 07:58 PM   #12
Adam Ef
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Default Re: Removing Exhaust Bolts

I lost a couple of weeks to this at the end of last year. One bolt came out clean, so I thought they'd both be ok and went for it with the second.... which sheared. I had someone try to weld a nut onto the end, but there wasn't enough to weld to. Couldn't cut a groove for a screwdriver either without cutting into the engine. So I very slowly drilled a small pilot hole up the middle. The bolt was fairly soft so it wasn't too hard.


Then came the real fun... I used an extractor bolt... which sheared!! Don't use them!!!! They tighten and jam forcing more pressure on the walls of the stuck bolt outwards, making it stick tighter. I then had the fun job of drilling out the broken extractor. All this took place upside down on the floor of a freezing garage. It took a long time, spreading over many days trying different things. No drill bits are hard enough to drill out hardened steel extractors. In the end I found that an aluminium oxide grinding stone attachement for a dremel is the only thing that would wear it away. It took ages and several dremel bits but worked and got me back to the point where I had a hole in the middle of the stuck bolt again.


Then I used repeated applications of penetrating oil, freezing spray sprayed up the hole in the bolt, then came back a day later and applied lots of heat with a proper Rothenberger blowtorch. Then sprayed it with freezing fluid and penetrating oil and repeated this several times over a few days.


Then I ordered some left handed drill bits and worked my way up in size and it eventually worked. The remains of the bolt suddenly unwound it's way out down the drill bit. Amazingly in the hours I'd spent upside down with my brain freezing I'd actually managed to drill the hole straight and the threads were ok. Good enough to use a tap to clean up and a new STAINLESS bolt fitted in perfectly.


In short, don't use extractors... prepare it really well with heat and freezing to try and break any corrosion before you attempt to undo the bolts. If I did it again I'd do that several times over several days, hitting the bolt head with a small hammer in between too. Anything to increase the chance of breaking any possible corrosion fusing it together. I'd then go slow and careful, maybe seeing if they move and still applying more heat even if they do. If they shear and you're not left with enough, use a centre punch to mark the middle as accurately as possible and use left handed drill bits.



My process I went through cost me a lot of time, frustration, discomfort and money on ruined drill bits, punch sets, broken extractor, loads of sprays and gas. But if all that had failed then I'd have been looking at taking the engine apart and taking it to someone with the electric bolt melting tools, which would have cost loads and needed an engine strip down and rebuild.

Last edited by Adam Ef; 24-02-19 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 24-02-19, 08:08 PM   #13
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Default Re: Removing Exhaust Bolts

Why bother removing the header pipe, it's made of stainless steel and will clean up quite easily.

Current method is to use some Harpic toilet cleaner (it's an acid) on it to remove the brown muck. Use a brush paint it on, leave for a few minutes, wash off. Repeat if necessary. Then polish using sovol and a drill.
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Old 24-02-19, 08:08 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Adam Ef View Post
I lost a couple of weeks to this at the end of last year. One bolt came out clean, so I thought they'd both be ok and went for it with the second.... which sheared. I had someone try to weld a nut onto the end, but there wasn't enough to weld to. Couldn't cut a groove for a screwdriver either without cutting into the engine. So I very slowly drilled a small pilot hole up the middle. The bolt was fairly soft so it wasn't too hard.


Then came the real fun... I used an extractor bolt... which sheared!! Don't use them!!!! They tighten and jam forcing more pressure on the walls of the stuck bolt outwards, making it stick tighter. I then had the fun job of drilling out the broken extractor. All this took place upside down on the floor of a freezing garage. It took a long time, spreading over many days trying different things. No drill bits are hard enough to drill out hardened steel extractors. In the end I found that an aluminium oxide grinding stone attachement for a dremel is the only thing that would wear it away. It took ages and several dremel bits but worked and got me back to the point where I had a hole in the middle of the stuck bolt again.


Then I used repeated applications of penetrating oil, freezing spray sprayed up the hole in the bolt, then came back a day later and applied lots of heat with a proper Rothenberger blowtorch. Then sprayed it with freezing fluid and penetrating oil and repeated this several times over a few days.


Then I ordered some left handed drill bits and worked my way up in size and it eventually worked. The remains of the bolt suddenly unwound it's way out down the drill bit. Amazingly in the hours I'd spent upside down with my brain freezing I'd actually managed to drill the hole straight and the threads were ok. Good enough to use a tap to clean up and a new STAINLESS bolt fitted in perfectly.


In short, don't use extractors... prepare it really well with heat and freezing to try and break any corrosion before you attempt to undo the bolts. If I did it again I'd do that several times over several days, hitting the bolt head with a small hammer in between too. Anything to increase the chance of breaking any possible corrosion fusing it together. I'd then go slow and careful, maybe seeing if they move and still applying more heat even if they do. If they shear and you're not left with enough, use a centre punch to mark the middle as accurately as possible and use left handed drill bits.



My process I went through cost me a lot of time, frustration, discomfort and money on ruined drill bits, punch sets, broken extractor, loads of sprays and gas. But if all that had failed then I'd have been looking at taking the engine apart and taking it to someone with the electric bolt melting tools, which would have cost loads and needed an engine strip down and rebuild.


Wow! When I asked the question this morn I had no idea I’d get such comprehensive responses and really good advice. I am glad I asked - and will certainly take my time on this problem. I like the idea of trying an impact driver, but first I’m going to apply penetrating oil twice daily for several days.

Alan


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Old 24-02-19, 08:10 PM   #15
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Default Re: Removing Exhaust Bolts

My saga is documented here... http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=222288&page=2
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Old 24-02-19, 08:13 PM   #16
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Default Re: Removing Exhaust Bolts

Heating and cooling is they key. If the steel and alumium has reacted and fused together for years, there's almost no chance you'll get any penetrating oil in there on it's own. Heat and freeze to expand and contract the metals quickly and hopefully any bond will break. Steel and aluminum expand and contract at slightly different speeds.
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Old 24-02-19, 08:15 PM   #17
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Default Re: Removing Exhaust Bolts

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Originally Posted by maviczap View Post
Why bother removing the header pipe, it's made of stainless steel and will clean up quite easily.

Current method is to use some Harpic toilet cleaner (it's an acid) on it to remove the brown muck. Use a brush paint it on, leave for a few minutes, wash off. Repeat if necessary. Then polish using sovol and a drill.


... because the manifold bracket has almost completely evaporated at the top (you can just see in the photo). If I don’t replace it then it will soon be in two pieces and not secure the pipe into the head,

I’ve acquired (for only £20 delivered) a much better header pipe, which has cleaned up very nicely on the bench (with Harpic - it may have been you that told me about it in another thread) and has a solid manifold bracket.

I don’t particularly want to do this job, but I think I’d better as it isn’t going to get any better.


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Old 24-02-19, 08:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: Removing Exhaust Bolts

I wonder why the retaining bracket has eroded away like that? Corrosion?

On my K6S, one of the front exhaust bolts came out with a bit of penetrating fluid and a long-handled allen key. I never got the other one to shift, despite heat, penetrating fluid and percussive persuasion. I eventually solved the problem last weekend by lowsiding on diesel and writing off the bike. So I'd go slow & steady if I were you
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Old 24-02-19, 09:11 PM   #19
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I wonder why the retaining bracket has eroded away like that? Corrosion?

On my K6S, one of the front exhaust bolts came out with a bit of penetrating fluid and a long-handled allen key. I never got the other one to shift, despite heat, penetrating fluid and percussive persuasion. I eventually solved the problem last weekend by lowsiding on diesel and writing off the bike. So I'd go slow & steady if I were you


I don’t know, the bike is quite new to me. The first owner used it as a commuter so it has had 13 years of daily use, I’m guessing it is just corrosion or erosion caused by all the crud that gets thrown up by the front wheel?

One of the bolts should be no problem, when I put just a little torque on it this morn it rotated a little, so after some penetrating oil it should come out. The other one didn’t want to move at all ( but I didn’t apply much force) - hence asking this question. It may be that the bolts will just come out with a bit more force (I was just using a short 3/8” ratchet this morn) but I don’t want to risk it until I’ve done what I can to make it easier. I’m in no rush, so I’ll give it a few cycles of penetrating oil and heat over the next few days.

Everything is still in tact at the moment, so one option is to just leave everything as it is and clean the header pipe in situ. I can’t help thinking that one day the bracket will fail completely though. (at which point I’d break the bike for spares). I’d sort of like to solve this problem in a more substantial way first though - by replacing the header with a much better one I’ve sourced.

I bought this bike as a project (I quite enjoy working on machinery) - I knew the radiator and brakes would need sorting (all done) but I didn’t notice the exhaust manifold until a few days ago.

I’m sorry to hear of your accident, I do hope you were not hurt.

Alan


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Old 25-02-19, 06:24 AM   #20
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Default Re: Removing Exhaust Bolts

Good morn and thank you for your advice.

I cleaned around the manifold yesterday eve and was a bit horrified to find the bracket is in a much worse state than I'd realised, once I got a layer of road crud off it was obvious much of it has just dissolved away, here is a photo from the left side:



As you may see, the top of the bracket is almost gone and there is not very much holding the pipe onto the head.

I should have realised when I bought the bike of course, and in hindsight if I'd bothered to have a good look I'd have walked away, but it is too late to worry about that now. Having spent a little tarting up the bike I might as well change the header, so I still have to get those pesky bolts out.

This may be a challenge!

Alan

Last edited by Othen; 25-02-19 at 07:15 AM.
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