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Old 19-12-18, 11:01 AM   #151
Talking Heads
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Default Re: Quote of the day (sorry, Brexit related)

Tories will cling on to power no matter what happens.
Labour are more split than the tories.


It appears Corbyn's plan (if indeed any exists) is to let Treeza do her worst then AFTER UK is safely out the EU Labour hope to step in and do what they can to clear up the tory mess.


At all costs he will try to avoid being left holding the baby as the bath drains.
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Old 19-12-18, 11:05 AM   #152
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Default Re: Quote of the day (sorry, Brexit related)

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Thw way I see it, most likely outcome..... one way or another, A50 will be revoked.
So what was the point of having a referendum or any vote at all ( just let the two main parties take it in turns every 4 or 5 years to run the country ) , it is important to remember that parliament voted almost unanimously for the running of the referendum, and we were left in no doubt that it would be a binding result ( some would even say 'threatened' by establishment who tried to steer vote their way). The very important reason that their will not be another vote are, it would set a precedence for a re-run of the Scottish independence vote and also a precedence that the establishment can ignore democracy when it does not suit them.

There was only about 0.5% or 6000 votes in the Welsh referendum on devolution and the legitimacy of that vote was never questioned - but in 2016 over 1 million votes was not a big enough margin apparently.

Democracy can be messy and is inconvenient sometimes if you are on the losing side, but it is a precious thing that we need to protect - the alternative is China, Saudi Arabia etc. etc. you get the picture
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Old 19-12-18, 11:25 AM   #153
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we were left in no doubt that it would be a binding result

If that's what you went to the ballot box thinking, you were either mistaken or you were lied to.






https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/
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Old 19-12-18, 11:49 AM   #154
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Default Re: Quote of the day (sorry, Brexit related)

If you look further down the article you posted there is another bit that says 'parliament will implement the result of the vote'. Which was printed on the leaflet sent to every household in UK.

We do not have a law in UK ( yet ) saying referendum results are legally binding, but many countries do including RofI - and the EU managed to overturn a couple of theirs, its what they do.. too much at stake for them and they need the money.

What you are arguing though means that if remain had won there would still have been a basis for legal challenge of result and calls for another one

https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2016...it-referendum/
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Last edited by SV650rules; 19-12-18 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 19-12-18, 11:51 AM   #155
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Default Re: Quote of the day (sorry, Brexit related)

i think one of the biggest problems in politics in recent years is the influence of Lizzy. she is old and not able to conduct herself as she once did which means that she is not asking her prime minister to do things that she might have once done. this had led the Government to do as they please.

politicians need controlled and directed without doing this they WILL justify their job by making things to do.

what would our politicians be doing right now if they were not dealing with brexit? well that means they are not doing what they would have been doing which in turn they are neglecting their duty and or the important stuff they used to.
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Old 19-12-18, 12:52 PM   #156
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Default Re: Quote of the day (sorry, Brexit related)

Leaflet claim worthless, fact remains that EU referendum was not binding, it was consultative.
One of the major constitutional issues in the UK is that in Scotland the people are sovereign but in England parliament is sovereign.


There is no solution which results in a good outcome for the UK as it currently exists.
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Old 19-12-18, 01:55 PM   #157
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Default Re: Quote of the day (sorry, Brexit related)

Arguments aside, this is something which may be of interest to some https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/...cid=spartandhp
The suggestion there is that (as I suspected) we will need an ETIAS document, a green card for insurance, and international driving permits. Of course those who never travel out of the UK won't care about this.

I don't know how valid or correct some of the items are, though many topics do still contain rather speculative words like hope and intend. Never trust a government "intention".
One other aspect for retired UK nationals living in the EU is the state pension, something I looked into when I was contemplating living abroad. The current regs state that while the UK is a member of the EEA then UK citizens can "export" their state pension and it will "uprate" (i.e. get annual increases) the same as if the person lived (resident/domiciled) in the UK. Those moving to non-EU states don't necessarily get the uprate.
The government issued a statement some long time ago that they had "no intention" of changing this, but of course that doesn't mean they won't. It could be a fairly significant aspect of UK sate pension values for those retired and living in an EU country, even at 2.5% annual increase it could mean after 10yrs your pension would have increased almost 30%, which as yet is not guaranteed to be the case. My guess is they could end up applying cut-off dates or similar, so anyone moving or claiming the state pension after 29/03/19 may possibly have different rules to anyone already in receipt (it's all up in the air at present). Again, some UK folk probably won't care about this aspect.
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Old 19-12-18, 04:15 PM   #158
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Default Re: Quote of the day (sorry, Brexit related)

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Leaflet claim worthless, fact remains that EU referendum was not binding, it was consultative.
One of the major constitutional issues in the UK is that in Scotland the people are sovereign but in England parliament is sovereign.


There is no solution which results in a good outcome for the UK as it currently exists.

So you are arguing against yourself again, if no referendum can be binding in UK then original referendum that kept UK in EU was not binding either. Ted Heath took us in illegally in 1972, but Wilson tried to belatedly legalise it in 1975 with a referendum on ' whether UK should remain a member of EEC' that should have happened in 1972 but Heath did not hold a referendum because public opinion was about 70/30 against joining ( and that was just joining a pure trading bloc that was later to turn into a meddling micro-managing political superstate) .

Once you start all this disputing of referendum results you open up a massive can of constitutional law worms.......

Any second indyreferendum in Scotland would be held under UK law, so that could be looked on as 'advisory' as well and the result ignored....and so on...and so on.....
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Old 19-12-18, 04:37 PM   #159
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Default Re: Quote of the day (sorry, Brexit related)

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So you are arguing against yourself again, if no referendum can be binding in UK then original referendum that kept UK in EU was not binding either. Ted Heath took us in illegally in 1972, but Wilson tried to belatedly legalise it in 1975 with a referendum on ' whether UK should remain a member of EEC' that should have happened in 1972 but Heath did not hold a referendum because public opinion was about 70/30 against joining ( and that was just joining a pure trading bloc that was later to turn into a meddling micro-managing political superstate) .

Once you start all this disputing of referendum results you open up a massive can of constitutional law worms.......

There is no constitutional requirement to hold referenda so there was nothing illegal about the Heath government signing the treaty of Rome.That is the job of government ,to govern on behalf of the people as long as they have the consent of parliament.The Wilson government took the view that they would hold a referendum which they did but they didnt legally need to. As an interesting aside to all this, we joined Nato without a referendum which is a treaty that could well result in us being required to go to war to defend any other Nato member.Should we hold a "peoples vote" about Nato?
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Old 19-12-18, 05:10 PM   #160
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There is no constitutional requirement to hold referenda so there was nothing illegal about the Heath government signing the treaty of Rome.That is the job of government ,to govern on behalf of the people as long as they have the consent of parliament.The Wilson government took the view that they would hold a referendum which they did but they didnt legally need to. As an interesting aside to all this, we joined Nato without a referendum which is a treaty that could well result in us being required to go to war to defend any other Nato member.Should we hold a "peoples vote" about Nato?

https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...nge-bedfellows

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-h...hip-referendum
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