Quote of the day (sorry, Brexit related)

[Talking Heads]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

Scotland is not allowed to hold referenda on constitutional matters, they need the permission of UK parliament in Westminster where powers are temporarily transferred from westminster to hollyrood under section 30 - that referendum would be under UK law so not binding ( as no referendum can be in UK law), the UK parliament could ignore the result and not do anything.

The people of Scotland are sovereign. Fact.

It is for the people of Scotland to determine the system of government which suits them best.

This is enshrined in international law. (International law trumps "UK law")

Should Scotland declare independence there's nothing westminster could do about it.

[embee]

Just had a skim through the https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ance-bill-2018
which basically intends to provide some sort of oversight of the UK environmental behaviour post Brexit (specifically). There's a lot of the usual bureaucratic guff in there, but as far as can see the body they plan to set up (Office for Environmental Protection (OEP)) won't really have much in the way of teeth, and essentially no powers over the government nor parliaments and the devolved bodies. In other words, while up to now the EU has had some powers to take the UK to task for environmental issues, post Brexit there will no one in a position to challenge the UK government etc.
I rather suspect the tsunami of new legislation and overseeing bodies set up by the government and parliament to cover all the aspects of regulation will tend to result in more unchallengeable power in Westminster.
"Who polices the police?"
It's sovereignty I guess. Just keep an eye on them, that's all, you know what they're like.

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by Talking Heads

The people of Scotland are sovereign. Fact.

It is for the people of Scotland to determine the system of government which suits them best.

This is enshrined in international law. (International law trumps "UK law")

Should Scotland declare independence there's nothing westminster could do about it.

any part of the UK can declare independence, only trouble is that it wont get it unless granted by Westminster. Westminster are still the Governing body in the whole of the UK. if any part of the UK try and "break free" then Westminster would have no option but to send in the forces to remove the trouble makers. think Spain and Catalonia.

Scotland is bound by law to adhere to Westminster rule until such time that it can have its public ask for independence or Westminster declare us not part of the UK. this is by no means a guarantee and Westminster can say no even if it was a 100% vote in favour of leave the UK. this applies to all the UK members.

yes Scotland has its own "local" laws but it also has to adhere to national laws as well. national law has precedence over "local" law.

[Talking Heads]

Originally Posted by Bibio

it wont get it unless granted by Westminster.

Absolutely flat wrong.
Scottish sovereignty rests with the people of Scotland, not with the westminster parliament.
It is for the people of Scotland to determine their preferred system of government.

"Resolved,

That this House endorses the principles of the Claim of Right for Scotland, agreed by the Scottish Constitutional Convention in 1989 and by the Scottish Parliament in 2012, and therefore acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs."

https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...ghtForScotland

https://www.parliament.uk/business/n...-for-scotland/

[Talking Heads]

Catalonia and Spain is an entirely different kettle of red herrings.

[Seeker]

"The Claim of Right has never had or claimed any legal force, but some imbue it with constitutional significance in relation to Scotland."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claim_of_Right_1989

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...itics-16745312 It was called upon to press the case for a devolved Scottish Parliament not as a tool of independence.


I see some Tories and Labour MPs are now getting together to thwart a no deal Brexit. https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ng-brexit-deal

No deal petition signatures now at 263,000.

I think I'd like to hibernate till April, wake up and read a summary of what happened. This "may you live in interesting times" stuff is getting a bit old.

[Talking Heads]

You need to realise one thing, the BBC is the state propaganda ministry.

[Talking Heads]

That's a very old story which you seem to have misunderstood.


The story is about ensuring that westminster vote before invoking A50, because to fail to have a vote in parliament would breach Scots law.


Can you guess what happened next children?


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Talking Heads

That's a very old story which you seem to have misunderstood.

Nov 2016... is that very old? The EU referendum was in that year.

"Triggering article 50 without MPs’ vote would be in breach of Scottish law, says court submission pointing to 1689 act"

"Echoing the Scottish government’s case to the court, O’Neill (the lawyer) says that because leaving the EU involves each part of the UK, the court must take account of Scotland’ constitutional law and in particular the Claim of Right Act 1689, signed the year after England’s weaker Bill of Rights was drafted. It codified the “radical revolutionary tradition” in Scotland that a monarch was always answerable to the law and the people, in this case its parliaments, he says."


so, no, don't think I misunderstood. They wanted to stop Article 50 without a vote (by MPs) using Scottish Claim of Right.

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by Talking Heads

Absolutely flat wrong.
Scottish sovereignty rests with the people of Scotland, not with the westminster parliament.
It is for the people of Scotland to determine their preferred system of government.

"Resolved,

That this House endorses the principles of the Claim of Right for Scotland, agreed by the Scottish Constitutional Convention in 1989 and by the Scottish Parliament in 2012, and therefore acknowledges the sovereign right of the Scottish people to determine the form of government best suited to their needs."

https://hansard.parliament.uk/common...ghtForScotland

https://www.parliament.uk/business/n...-for-scotland/

thats so the people of Scotland still have a vote on who they elect otherwise they would have a dictatorship. this also ensures that Holyrood still have a say in UK politics. "sovereignty - an authority of state to govern ones self". it does not give automatic right of independence, thats a completely different thing.

if the SNP thought that there was a legal loop hole to independence then they would have used it by now.