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Old 09-12-18, 11:07 AM   #11
Adam Ef
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

There's a huge difference between riding off from a petrol station not paying and riding around throwing acid in people's faces to steal phones.


There's an area of Bristol with a one way outside a Police station that the kids ride / drive the wrong way up just to get the Police to give chase.. for the gang kudos maybe, I'm not sure.


I'm not giving any answers but I know there's lots of problems that are proving very difficult for the Police to have any solution to.
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Old 09-12-18, 11:24 AM   #12
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

I agree, not a lot else the police can do. They didn't deploy this tactic until all the more orthodox methods had been proven to be ineffective. Some would argue that's far too much restraint.

It's a pyramid of crime. The mopeds are stolen, often with the threat or actual use of physical violence. The riders aren't licenced or insured - minor point here. Then it's daylight robbery backed up by more violence. Some proper nasty reports of hammers being used when people resist.

No blame attributed to the victims here but let's just say it doesn't really help that so many city dwellers wander around with their phone out and headphones on. I'll defend their right to do so in safety but the moped thieves would have a harder time if the phone was in a pocket and the potential victim was alert and aware of their surroundings.
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Old 09-12-18, 11:47 AM   #13
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

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I agree, not a lot else the police can do. They didn't deploy this tactic until all the more orthodox methods had been proven to be ineffective. Some would argue that's far too much restraint.

It's a pyramid of crime. The mopeds are stolen, often with the threat or actual use of physical violence. The riders aren't licenced or insured - minor point here. Then it's daylight robbery backed up by more violence. Some proper nasty reports of hammers being used when people resist.

No blame attributed to the victims here but let's just say it doesn't really help that so many city dwellers wander around with their phone out and headphones on. I'll defend their right to do so in safety but the moped thieves would have a harder time if the phone was in a pocket and the potential victim was alert and aware of their surroundings.
I would argue that walking around with expensive phones on show while wearing earphones would be described by police or insurance companies as partly creating the problem by not taking due care and attention. Women joggers who run around with earphones in are pretty much unaware of their surrounding as well, blocking off one of their most useful senses. People have duty to look after themselves, they cannot rely on police to save their sorry a5535 because they are listening to iTunes at full volume... and worst of all they think it is their right...

And when people have their eyes / attention on the phone screen and their ears blocked up, words fail me.
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Old 09-12-18, 11:53 AM   #14
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

Yeah but you can't go as far as to say it's their fault. In an ideal world, they should be able to do so without fear. I go out without wearing a bulletproof vest but I wouldn't consider it my fault if I get shot.

Having said that, they really annoy me!
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Old 09-12-18, 01:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

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Yeah but you can't go as far as to say it's their fault. In an ideal world, they should be able to do so without fear. I go out without wearing a bulletproof vest but I wouldn't consider it my fault if I get shot.

Having said that, they really annoy me!
Really annoy me too .. I have had a couple of phone users walk straight off kerb into path of car I was driving, after I screeched to a halt one raised their hand in thanks, the other ( about 14 or so I would guess ) raised their middle finger - wow, could have been in shock I guess. In an ideal world we would all be able to leave our cars and houses unlocked and the doors open, but try explaining that to insurance after you have been robbed..

Although 99% of people are law abiding and respect others rights and understand the whole property thing, there are still more than enough bad folks around to catch out the unwary or simply stupid people.
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Old 09-12-18, 01:28 PM   #16
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

True. But as a modern society we should discourage people from being stupid and unwary but at the same time protect them. Fine line to walk.

Insurance is a completely different matter as it's simply a commercial contract, based on profit. If they start saying no headphones, I would not have a problem with that.
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Old 09-12-18, 01:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

string the really bad ones up on lampposts for all to see... lets see how long the others continue.

the problem is the law and doiedoogooddies. if there were more consequences to the actions then there would be less crime. i have always maintained that if you go to jail then you are there because you have committed a crime on society so your paying society back for your crime... not the other way round like giving crims games boxes and tv and all the other luxury's that they get. being in prison should not just be about incarceration it should be about punishment as well. i also feel that they should have to "work their time" so be less of a burden to society. make prison a place that nobody wants to go and people will be less likely to go there.
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Old 09-12-18, 01:44 PM   #18
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

Deterrents are really complicated things. Severe ones often have unintended consequences. You'd think the death penalty would be a great deterrent but plenty of evidence shows it's not to the case.
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Old 09-12-18, 01:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

morels stop people from killing not the consequences. does not mean that there should not be tougher consequences.
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Old 09-12-18, 02:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

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Deterrents are really complicated things. Severe ones often have unintended consequences. You'd think the death penalty would be a great deterrent but plenty of evidence shows it's not to the case.
You are right. We used to execute people for stealing goods worth more than a few quid or transport them for life for nicking a loaf of bread. It didnt prevent crime then and it wouldnt now. What does seem to work is knowing that you will get caught but even then there seems to be an element in society that doesnt think about it rationally and misbehaves accordingly.
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