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Old 05-12-16, 08:30 AM   #1
shiftin_gear98
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Default Boiler Question

Morning Org.
Last night I removed a radiator to decorate behind - no real drama, was the first time I'd ever done it though.
Anyhow did what I needed to do including relocate a power socket that was behind the rad!!


Put it back on, pressurised the system turned the boiler on as house freezing and went round bleeding all the rads. Whilst topping up the pressure in the system as I went. Wondering if I should have left it off whilst I did this.
Sorry should say Vaillant EcoTec plus 831 boiler 13 months old.


Wife came home with the kids just as I was finishing so I rushed the last couple of rads. Went to check the boiler and there was a warning of low pressure - again no biggie as it has a safety cut out. So I topped it back up to around 2 bar. And it came back to life. System 0.8 - 3 bar.
Did a final loop of all the rads to check no leaks, went back to close up the flap. When it all went pear shape. Water was dripping from the left hand side panel bottom seam. Poo. Really had enough now.


Run to get a couple of bowls. After a look in the book, I get the front off. and water is coming out of the Automatic Air Vent on the pump.


I have closed this off and stopped the water, trying to get hold of the gent who fitted it for us. If I crack the cap even a 1/4 turn open the water starts again.


My questions to you wonderful plumbers out there.


WHY is it doing this?
If it's an air release how is water coming out of it now?
And is it ok for my wife to have the heating on today with this cap closed? Oh and whilst I asking, would it do this every time I want to remove a rad?


Thanks Martin.

Last edited by shiftin_gear98; 05-12-16 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 05-12-16, 12:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Biloer Question

Not a boiler maintainer or plumber - disclaimer. But I have an engineering background for what it's worth.

If I had blocked up an air vent on a boiler I'd be waiting for the repair person to come and sort out the defect before turning it on. There has to be a reason it has a vent irrespective of what's coming out of it. If you block a vent up, pressure has to build up...and if it can't get out of the vent, where is it going to go?
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Old 05-12-16, 12:33 PM   #3
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Default Re: Biloer Question

1. The automatic air vent is similar to a float bowl in a carb. When water is present the float lifts and shuts the valve. When air is present the float drops and lets the air out. Just like on a carb if you get crud on the seat the valve will leak.
2. Turning off the automatic air vent is no different to it being shut because there is no air present so it will be safe. The only downside is that any air that goes past the automatic vent won't be vented so will satay in the system. Unless you have a massive amount of air in the system it won't make any difference. The worst that could happen is the pump will lose its prime if it fills with air. if this happens then the low flow switch will shutdown the boiler.


I have to ask why did you drain down the system to take a radiator off? What is wrong with the valves either side of the rad?


For future reference I always bleed the system with the boiler and pump off. Once I have been round once I start the pump up for a bit to push any air to high points (radiators). I then stop the pump and bleed the system again. After that I just turn it all back on. If it starts gurgling I will bleed the radiator that is noisy again.
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Old 05-12-16, 12:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Biloer Question

Stingo,
If it is a normal boiler it is vented to the header tank in the loft. If it is a combi it will have a pressure relief valve.
The reason to vent the air is that 1. it will stall the pump. 2. air in the system really reduces the heat transfer between the water and the radiators. 3. It makes really annoying noises when the boiler fires up in the morning.
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Old 05-12-16, 01:39 PM   #5
shiftin_gear98
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Default Re: Biloer Question

DuncanC Thanks,


Bled the system as I'm an idiot. Might try your suggestion next time. It did cross my mind.
Whole system is 13 months old - Boiler, rads, pipework. Was a one pipe system when we moved in.


How do I unblock or dislodge the trapped float?


Drain it all again, and remove / wipe. Or would a couple of taps free it up? Or would it sort itself out (unlikely)?
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Old 05-12-16, 03:10 PM   #6
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Default Re: Boiler Question

Thank you DuncanC - noted. I like your easy to understand description...even I can understand it! Everyday a school day.
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Old 05-12-16, 06:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: Boiler Question

Have you got boiler insurance?


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Old 05-12-16, 06:45 PM   #8
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Default Re: Boiler Question

if its a combi boiler just shut the rad off at the valves like you did to take the radiator off. combi systems are flow/return to each radiator so you can shut off any rad you like.

the reason you are getting leaks is that you have tightened the nut up too much and crushed the olive and possibly punctured the copper pipe in the process. this is a common mistake by people. the olive only needs to be tightened so it 'seals' not done up like a wheel nut by a monkey. its a compression fitting not a nut and bolt.

turn the offending rad valves off until you can get someone in who knows what they are doing.

or ignore me as i'm wrong...
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Old 05-12-16, 07:57 PM   #9
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Default Re: Boiler Question

Spoke to the guy who fitted it. He said it must be due to that pressure drop, the float must have stuck as it lowered allowing water to pass by it. He has said it's fine to keep it like this. Quite typical for these valves. He did say it's still under warranty so I could get Vaillant out to fix it. So I might look into that after Xmas. Having looked online you can pick up a new valve for about £15.00. Might get one and drain it again. Likewise I might also just do what he said and leave it till next Nov when he'll be back to service it. Tapping it didn't help.
As there is no air coming out I think I'll forget about it for awhile. Missus op next week. Another day another thing learnt.
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Old 05-12-16, 08:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: Boiler Question

Personally if the system is bled I'd leave it until the spring as most likely you will have to replace the automatic vent.
It might be worth checking out boiler cover as this usually includes your annual safety check which you will need anyway.
Obviously don't mention you've messed with the system as some engineers get sniffy about anything inside a boiler even if you go nowhere near the gas.
Just turn the vent back on before the engineer turns up and mention you keep losing pressure from the system.
Lesson, never mess with your heating during the winter always do it spring so you have months to fix it.
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