White lines?

[daktulos]

After the discussion in the cyclist thread, I happened to watch a video on Youtube which reminded me of something I've been wondering for a while. Here's a still from it:



The road markings aren't clear, but it's a double-white line on the corner. I don't want to talk about the safety of the riding (it actually made me feel quite uncomfortable and sorry for the Bentley driver), but rather the legality of it.

While the helmet camera is clearly over the white lines, it's entirely possible that the wheels aren't. I remember hearing (but I've no idea when/where) that any part of a vehicle overhanging the nearest white line would be illegal. I can completely understand why this makes sense.

But I've also heard that it's OK to ride on the solid white line of a bus lane, and it's the wheels which are important there.

Does anyone know if details like this are written in law, is it case law, or is it up to the police/etc. to use their judgement (e.g. consider it dangerous driving).

Thanks.

[Chris_SVS]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...chedule/9/made

subject to sub-paragraph (5), every vehicle proceeding on any length of road along which the marking has been so placed, as viewed in the direction of travel of the vehicle, a continuous line is on the left of a broken line or of another continuous line, must be so driven as to keep the first-mentioned continuous line on the right hand or off side of the vehicle.

Essentially, wide handlebars, mirrors or panniers (the widest point of a bike) cannot cross a solid white.

The riding in the above video is clearly questionable, could I have a link please.

[daktulos]

Originally Posted by Chris_SVS

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...chedule/9/made



Essentially, wide handlebars, mirrors or panniers (the widest point of a bike) cannot cross a solid white.

The riding in the above video is clearly questionable, could I have a link please.

Cheers - I need to work out the bus lane one now, but I suspect it's just leeway given before the CCTV operators issue a fine.

I'll PM you a link,

[Grant66]

If it's anything like tennis then on the line counts as being in (with the bus lane being out).

Can't see anything in the act or regulation that describes what the definition of crossing is though, but they should see a visible gap to get a conviction. No mention of straddling on single white lines.

The law does mention straddling in regard to double whites. Which, if taken from the dictionary definition of straddle, means that you are (not necessarily on the ground) on both sides of the line at the same time.

So, yes if your helmet is over the line and the bike isn't you're breaking rule 129.

Sent from an S20 using Tapatalk with that kin cr4p blocked

[Dave20046]

I can only imagine that our esteemed biker friend is overtaking three cyclists and has neither brakes nor eyes equipped.


As has been said above... but it did make me think of something I've been meaning to look up recently. There's a trade off on risk, re. space available etc etc, but when filtering for example standstill traffic I was of the opinion you could overtake in the same lane if safe to do so (even on solid white as long as you don't cross it).
In trying to google the wording I found this video ...which should definitely be discouraged and makes me want to find wording that clarifies exactly what is allowed even more!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I8mGtgd0Y0

Have a good cringe.
Side note, f00k knows what the rider was doing, I cna only imagine he took that line because the car was already doing it...or perhaps he cut up the car and there was never any gap there at all? Though it sort of looks clear from his shoulder check , maybe that's why he only indicated for a split second.

[Chris_SVS]

The rider moves lane to avoid conflict with the oncoming HGV that's about to merge at speed. Good practice, what isn't good practice there is hanging out at the centre line. Take a more dominant road position away from the HGV.

It's hard to tell with the overtake if it was anything really to do with the rider, or purely deliberate. The road you can see via the camera looks clear during the shoulder check and the cars lights are visible in the mirror for a few seconds after, preceeding the squeeze.

[daktulos]

Originally Posted by Dave20046

I can only imagine that our esteemed biker friend is overtaking three cyclists and has neither brakes nor eyes equipped.

Originally Posted by Dave20046

As has been said above... but it did make me think of something I've been meaning to look up recently. There's a trade off on risk, re. space available etc etc, but when filtering for example standstill traffic I was of the opinion you could overtake in the same lane if safe to do so (even on solid white as long as you don't cross it).

I think if it's a stationary vehicle, you can cross the line - but I would think twice as the rule is no doubt intended for parked cars, not bypassing a queue.

Originally Posted by Dave20046

In trying to google the wording I found this video ...which should definitely be discouraged and makes me want to find wording that clarifies exactly what is allowed even more!

Have a good cringe.

Oh my god! That's horrendous. It's why bikers should dominate their lane, and why learners should have more mandatory training. It's also exactly the same reason why cycl... never mind.

The car driver is clearly driving dangerously, but if it had been a safe pass (e.g. a motorcyclist intentionally giving up position to allow another motorcyclist to pass in the same lane) would it have been legal?

[Chris_SVS]

Originally Posted by daktulos

The car driver is clearly driving dangerously, but if it had been a safe pass (e.g. a motorcyclist intentionally giving up position to allow another motorcyclist to pass in the same lane) would it have been legal?

Giving up position to allow another motorcyclist to pass in the same lane isn't illegal in any sense I can recall. Or indeed, is passing another motorcyclist in the same lane.

Could perhaps argue that HC 163 would apply re giving as much space as you would when overtaking a car, this is advisory though

[daktulos]

Originally Posted by Chris_SVS

Giving up position to allow another motorcyclist to pass in the same lane isn't illegal in any sense I can recall.

I guess that makes sense, as it's what happens on single-carriageways.

[Chris_SVS]

My editor was funky there, was hiding quotes

Im not sure there's one single answer though, your positioning when overtaking is really governed by what you're going to be passing and where it is.

FWIW: I have no problem passing motorcyclists in the same lane if their position allows, similarly I have no problem with dangling a foot to be passed myself - I generally don't if there's oncoming vehicles as it would put me too close to those, but any other time there's probably little reason to be using the offside lane.