Cornering

[Fen Tiger]

Chicken strips? I call that bit my family circle....��

[SV650rules]

Modern tyres are designed with an ever changing radius on the tyre profile, the idea being that the contact patch with bike upright is the smallest and as you lean over, the farther you lean over the bigger the contact should get. If you lean inside the bike when you corner the bike will stay more upright for the same corner speed, its all about the position of the tyre contact patch in relation to the centre of gravity of the bike + rider, by leaning inside the bike the rider is moving the CofG the way he wants the bike to go. You can get rid of chicken strip easier if you counter-lean (as Bibio puts it) and push the bike over more while you try to remain upright (BMX / moto-cross / SM style). I find counter-steering feels very natural to me, maybe I am lucky as some people have a hard time understanding how it works.

Tyre profile will change as well, a touring biased tyre profile will be flatter to give a bigger contact patch and better wear in in the upright position, while a sports tyre will be more 'pointy' to give more contact when bike is leaned over, so it will be easier to get rid of CS on a touring tyre profile than a more pointy sports tyre,

[Talking Heads]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

I find counter-steering feels very natural to me, maybe I am lucky as some people have a hard time understanding how it works.

Part of the problem is that "counter steering" is a complete misnomer.
The phenomenon popularly known as "counter steering" is what one does when applying the correct steering input for the desired direction of travel.
And every kid given a bicycle learns to do it perfectly naturally without ever being told about it.
So-called "counter steering" does not have to be taught.

Best thing you can do for someone if they ask about "counter steering" is tell them its a complete load of internet guff and they should just keep on enjoying their riding without over-thinking it!

[R1ffR4ff]

Originally Posted by Talking Heads

Part of the problem is that "counter steering" is a complete misnomer.
The phenomenon popularly known as "counter steering" is what one does when applying the correct steering input for the desired direction of travel.
And every kid given a bicycle learns to do it perfectly naturally without ever being told about it.
So-called "counter steering" does not have to be taught.

Best thing you can do for someone if they ask about "counter steering" is tell them its a complete load of internet guff and they should just keep on enjoying their riding without over-thinking it!

+10

[SV650rules]

Some people just lean the bike over to go around a corner, using their weight to move the CofG which is quite valid. IMHO counter-steering is not a misnomer because it says you need to move the handlebar in the opposite direction to the way you want to go (you apply forces to the handlebar as though you want to go left when you are actually leaning over in a RH bend, that is where the 'counter' bit comes in - it is not intuitive in any way and some people never do it.

[carelesschucca]

It doesn't have to be taught but if it's emphasised properly it can change people's riding completely.

I'm case in point, I thought I was riding OK, but was asked to ride with open hands and only pushing with the palms of my hands, and asked to think about pushing away to get the bike to react... It changed my riding forever, it was a revelation. It was just a case of enhancing what my body already knew...

[Talking Heads]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

you apply forces to the handlebar as though you want to go left when you are actually leaning over in a RH bend, that is where the 'counter' bit comes in - it is not intuitive in any way and some people never do it.

Hmm, "and some people never do it", these will be the people who only ride in straight lines?

To go round corners you absolutely have to make the correct steering inputs, whether consciously or unconsciously.

People simply don't need to know about so called "counter steering", if they are able to ride round corners they will already be doing it.

[Trev B]

It's also about preparing the mass of you and bike to accomodate the CofG and resultant force for said degree of curve.its not just about counter steering or contact patch with the road,your brain does many many calculations before you deviate from a straight line. !!

[ophic]

Originally Posted by SV650rules

Some people just lean the bike over to go around a corner, using their weight to move the CofG which is quite valid.

Yeah this never actually happens. It's been tested by welding a fixed handlebar to the frame and getting riders to hold that instead. They then had the turning radius of a battleship.

[Blapper]

IMHO Both methods of steering actually work, but only leaning (moving body mass) gives super-tanker like very slow response. Counter-steering is a direct, efficient method of steering and the two combined give fastest response only necessary on the track.

I actually think almost everybody counter steers but some do it sub-consciously and so think they only lean. It is actually very hard to move the bike without inputting force into the bars.