Independance & devolution

[Stingo]

This should be good for discussion.

The latest headlines reveal that in Scotland, certain University fees will now be paid by the english taxpayer. In addition, prescriptions are now free for those that need them - there are similar arrangements in Wales I believe. Now, whilst I have not extensively researched this issue, I feel certain that there will be people here who have an opinion on this subject.

I have nothing against the people either North of the border, or indeed West of the border . My issue lies with the system as it 'appears' to me. If Wales & Scotland are now following the process of devolution and are establishing their own independence, why is it left to the English taxpayer to fund thisngs like NHS prescriptions and university fees? I live in a post code lottery type area where I have pay £6000 for an operation that my wife needs. A few years ago, we had to pay thousands for certain medication which was available free elsewhere. Most people that attend uni in England have to pay fees or get a form of loan and repay that. And yet we, the English taxpayer, is now funding these very things in other parts of the 'NOT the United Kingdom'. What's going on?

Please don't misunderstand me - getting these things gratis is really superb and that's what taxes should be for.. .but it don't seem to be happening down in our neck of the woods where I pay the taxes. And no...I'm not going to move!! ( the locals wouldn't like me due to my accent )

Hmmm...

Latest headlines for the past 50 decades have been reading that Scotland has been shafted on a regular basis by Westiminster on the majority of services taxes...etc.

The "county" of Scotland had the poll tax a year early...we pay more for our fuel...we have less money for our councils...education etc. We have less for defence. Let's not forget the shipbuilding industries!!!!

We give the economy oil and financial institutions.

Westminster was involved in innumerable attempts to secretly bury toxic and nuclear waste throughout Scotland. An independent Scotland would be in a position to curtail such activities, and to put stricter controls on both dumping and the general usage of nuclear power. They would also be capable of restricting the American military's activities of similar nature.

Scotland does not get a particularly fair share of UK defense procurement, nor is the military an entrenched part of the job market. (Where do all the defence contracts go???? Down south!!!!!) An independent Scotland in the single European market would be able to compete on more equal terms.It would also be able to use defence as a way to boost employment, if it so wished.

Despite a certain amount of depreciation in people's perceptions - especially the english, the Scottish economy is in a state of upturn beyond a lot of the rest of the UK. Although many traditional Scottish industries like shipbuilding, went into terminal decline in the 1970's,Scotland has recovered and restructured remarkably well - prior to devolution. Many of its new industries, electronics, tourism and financial services, have raised employment higher than in many other parts of Britain.

So all this crap from down south about Scotland being oversibsidised is just that - crap.

The truth is...now we have devolution we are making a good job of it and why shouldn't we. These petty headlines about English taxpayers paying for Scottish this and Scottish that is just headline fodder.

If the people down south who made these headlines actually did their homework then lets see what the headlines would really say.

At the end of the day...if Scotland is such a burden on the English tax payer then why the fack are England so desperate to avoid us becoming independent????

Rant over

If Scotland wishes to be independent then fair enough, I don't know anyone who's said otherwise!

I'd welcome it. If it's truly in the interest of the scottish people.

Could you give me your citation for: "Despite a certain amount of depreciation in people's perceptions - especially the english, "

Perhaps we could also have a referendum in England - should we devolve from the rest of the union!!! Ooh, and One for London.

Originally Posted by Stingo

This should be good for discussion.

The latest headlines reveal that in Scotland, certain University fees will now be paid by the english taxpayer. In addition, prescriptions are now free for those that need them - there are similar arrangements in Wales I believe.

If Wales & Scotland are now following the process of devolution and are establishing their own independence, why is it left to the English taxpayer to fund thisngs like NHS prescriptions and university fees? And yet we, the English taxpayer, is now funding these very things in other parts of the 'NOT the United Kingdom'. What's going on?

Does that mean that I don't have to pay Income Tax, or VAT etc, because I live in Wales? The tax I pay still goes in the same pot as the tax you pay.

There's nothing discriminatory about it (in terms of which country you happen to live in). Is there extra burden on the tax system because of it? Certainly.

Your argument should be why the "English" government don't give you free prescriptions & student fees out of the pot of money.

[Stingo]

Originally Posted by Baph

Does that mean that I don't have to pay Income Tax, or VAT etc, because I live in Wales? The tax I pay still goes in the same pot as the tax you pay.

There's nothing discriminatory about it (in terms of which country you happen to live in). Is there extra burden on the tax system because of it? Certainly.

Your argument should be why the "English" government don't give you free prescriptions & student fees out of the pot of money.

That's the phrase I was looking for!! (I'm a bit of a wus ).

Originally Posted by Baph

There's nothing discriminatory about it (in terms of which country you happen to live in). Is there extra burden on the tax system because of it? Certainly.

Your argument should be why the "English" government don't give you free prescriptions & student fees out of the pot of money.

Here in Shrewsbury we are of course in England. There are often complaints in the paper that someone living in Shrewsbury has to pay for certain treatment at the Royal Shrewsbury Hospital but that people living in Welshpool just down the road don't have to pay, notwithstanding that they are seeing the same consultant at the same hospital, simply because the Welsh Assembly pays instead. It is unfair, and of course it's discriminatory, everyone should be treated the same.

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by Baph

Does that mean that I don't have to pay Income Tax, or VAT etc, because I live in Wales? The tax I pay still goes in the same pot as the tax you pay.

There's nothing discriminatory about it (in terms of which country you happen to live in). Is there extra burden on the tax system because of it? Certainly.

Your argument should be why the "English" government don't give you free prescriptions & student fees out of the pot of money.

Looks like the Forum ate my earlier reply which was along these lines :P

Its frustrating that scotland gets free university, and we dont; I'm not too bad off, since my LEA (and that then means the tax payers) pay for half of my tuition fees, as a non-repayable grant. But for new students, who started university in september, they are having to pay loads and loads. Chemistry departments across the country have been closing due to lack of money, and now more of EVERY department may close for lack of students who cant afford to pay - whilst scottish students get their university education free! I'm not saying im jelous, I'm just saying its a little unfair that the tax-payers are paying for the economy of another country (even if i is part of us) when there are things going wrong within our own.

Matt

Originally Posted by Ed

Here in Shrewsbury we are of course in England. There are often complaints in the paper that someone living in Shrewsbury has to pay for certain treatment at the Royal Shrewsbury Hospital but that people living in Welshpool just down the road don't have to pay, notwithstanding that they are seeing the same consultant at the same hospital, simply because the Welsh Assembly pays instead. It is unfair, and of course it's discriminatory, everyone should be treated the same.

OK, perhaps I should revise my statement then:

So long as you're treated in a hospital within your own country, there's nothing discriminatory about it. It should be the place of treatment, not residence that counts. Unfortunately it isn't this way.

But alas, it's of benefit to me. Two of my kids having treatments on the NHS, one of which we'd probably have to pay for if we lived in England. Is it right? No, NHS should be just what it says on the tin, free for all people with UK citizenship.

[Luckypants]

The formulae for deciding how much Wales, NI and Scotland get from the Central pot have been pretty uch the same for years. The difference now is that the various aasemblies have the power to decide how to spend that cash. If Wales and Scotland decide that they want to use some of it to provide free prescriptions, that is our decision. There is a cut in services elsewhere, this is not new money.

English taxpayers pay no more and no less than thier Welsh / Scottish / Irish counterparts - we all get shafted by Westminster.