Training "can be dangerous"

[ChrisCurvyS]

Just seen this poppycock on visordown -

http://www.visordown.com/features/di...ous/24562.html

I know there's a couple of pilots on here who will be able to give an informed opinion. However, I would have said that flying and motorcycling are very similar in that you can use constant training and practice to make something which is by nature very dangerous actually quite safe.

And I'm sure flying a fighter jet down a canyon is still pretty thrilling, even if you are following a set route prescribed by the Man.

[Sid Squid]

It's not poppycock, the one obvious failing of bike training is that you must not fill rider's heads with specifics, but educate them to understand the process, which leads them to make decisions for themselves, not pick a response to a circumstance from a box, which can at best be an approximation. That said I wouldn't tell anyone not to take training, but it must always be understood that however 'good' the training is, it has limitations, it cannot make one a good rider by teaching that in "X" situation, "Y" response is the right one, but must attempt to give the understanding that leads riders to make decisions for themselves. Too many riders have training that does the first, but does not do the second, is that dangerous? I don't think that's ever how I would describe it, but it certainly leaves much to be desired.

[Red Herring]

He has a valid point, but training should be about raising awareness and helping riders think for themselves. Seem to remember we had this discussion recently here:

http://forums.sv650.org/showthread.php?t=207517&page=2

[ChrisCurvyS]

Originally Posted by Sid Squid

It's not poppycock, the one obvious failing of bike training is that you must not fill rider's heads with specifics, but educate them to understand the process, which leads them to make decisions for themselves, not pick a response to a circumstance from a box, which can at best be an approximation. That said I wouldn't tell anyone not to take training, but it must always be understood that however 'good' the training is, it has limitations, it cannot make one a good rider by teaching that in "X" situation, "Y" response is the right one, but must attempt to give the understanding that leads riders to make decisions for themselves. Too many riders have training that does the first, but does not do the second, is that dangerous? I don't think that's ever how I would describe it, but it certainly leaves much to be desired.

Totally agree with you Sid but I've never got the impression that training does fill riders' heads with binary responses to different scenarios.
Quite the contrary - when I did my rospa training my instructor was quite clear that there aren't always black and white answers to each scenario.
What I had more issue with was the author's idea that riding is somehow different to anything else, and training is an artificial thing to do. It's not - it's just the passing on of experience essentially.

Approaching a corner slow down, on a straight open her up, sorry have I missed something?

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by Bluefish

.... sorry have I missed something?

Yes, and hopefully you shall continue to do so!

Originally Posted by ChrisCurvyS

However, I would have said that flying and motorcycling are very similar in that you can use constant training and practice to make something which is by nature very dangerous actually quite safe.

I "fly" by the seat of my pants. The one time they took me further into trouble they took me all the way back out the other side with a wave and no damage.

[Niall_farley]

I believe it's simply a case of Volenti non fit enjuria.

You know the risks of riding a bike and put yourself in the dangers involved.

You yourself know you could take the car but you take the bike so whatever the dangerous occurrence the result is likely to be much worst than if you took the car

Although I agree training helps a lot and without it there would be a lot more accidents

However

I believe experience and self taught near miss' are what teach a rider there own "best" way to avoid a situation or make the outcome less disastrous for themselfs

I say this from the point of view of a new rider the fact I'm still in this learning curve I'm still figuring out what works and what doesn't.

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by Niall_farley

I believe experience and self taught near miss' are what teach a rider there own "best" way to avoid a situation or make the outcome less disastrous for themselfs

I say this from the point of view of a new rider the fact I'm still in this learning curve I'm still figuring out what works and what doesn't.

I can only repeat my advice that it is far cheaper and less painful to learn from the mistakes of others than to make them all yourself, although I accept that I make this statement from a position of ignorance having never actually been off on the road myself..... (That's blown it, best leave the bike in the garage today....) Seriously though, there is a good message in that article in that he is right you should not be "taught" set moves for set circumstances, but rather you should learn how to see circumstances developing and anticipate the possible consequences so that you can take the course of your choosing. In other words have a crash because you anticipated it and decided to take the chance rather than letting someone else make the decision for you!

Jumping on the SV1000, I had 'problems' at slow speed.....(junctions)..... running wide at lefts, 'threepenny bit' ing it turning right. Blamed the steering damper & 'weight forward' riding position. (only ever had 'upright' bikes/flats) So......I went to a ex police motorcyclist instructor. He put my slow speed issues right in 10mins (was trying to steer/weight on bars) So.....into town n country.....MUCH more confident in town, really got on 'making progress' on the B roads (85/90mph) and A roads, he was more than happy with my bike control/awareness/positioning etc.
Tho I was 'confident' before hand, its reassuring to know that I'm 'doing things right'.........
So.........even with 35yrs experience on 2 wheels.......training has proved "useful".........and its reassuring that 'newby' Niall has been trained by 'the best' of bike riders......


"Gas it w###a".........