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Old 15-02-16, 07:47 PM   #1
agy
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Default Need help with PCN

Hi Guys

I hope maybe someone can give me suggestions on what arguments to use to have any chance of winning this. My first challenge was rejected so I'll try again but looking to build up my case more.

I live and work in Wandsworth. Common knowledge in this borough: you can park on the pavement. I even made extra sure few years ago by calling the council to confirm it is in fact legal. They said yes. No one ever mentioned there may be exceptions.

I have been parking on the pavements of Wandsworth for years without issues. Especially one particular pavement near my work as there is lots of room for people to pass and it's a side street too. Never had problems until last week when I got the PCN. I thought this is rubbish as clearly I've done nothing illegal to the best of my knowledge and in fact did what I thought was right and proper by calling the council in the past. It said I was parked on a single yellow during restriction hours. I challenged it by saying I was on the pavement, not on the road where the yellow line is. Never been fined there before in all this time. Turns out there is a rule I or anyone I know has never heard of - if there is a yellow line, it actually applies to the pavement too! I hear this is in fact true but how on earth was I meant to know?

They said it's my responsibility to ensure I am parked legally but for goodness sake, if you check to make sure and someone says yes, you leave it at that. Me and another bike have been parking in that bit for a long time (he got a ticket that same day too).

I am very annoyed as it's not like I'm some opportunist hoping to get away with an act I knew was wrong. I followed the correct procedures and now I have a blooming fine when I can certainly be spending this money on essential things.

Can anyone suggest anything I can challenge them with?
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Old 15-02-16, 07:57 PM   #2
Dipper
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Default Re: Need help with PCN

Quote:
Originally Posted by agy View Post
if there is a yellow line, it actually applies to the pavement too!
Unfortunately this is correct, you have little grounds for appeal I'm afraid.
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Old 15-02-16, 10:36 PM   #3
Red Herring
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Default Re: Need help with PCN

Sorry mate, as Dipper said the law is the law. You could try explaining why you thought what you were doing was legal as mitigation, but ultimately parking restrictions apply to the carriageway and that includes pavements. It's an unfortunate consequence of parking enforcement becoming privatised, they'll screw you regardless of whether or not you're causing a problem.
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Old 16-02-16, 03:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: Need help with PCN

Ignorance is not a defence unfortunately, don't waste any more time trying to appeal they've got you by the book.
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Old 16-02-16, 04:29 PM   #5
agy
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Default Re: Need help with PCN

I completely understand what you are saying but this is a prime case of "fine print" where you get conned. It ought to be obvious. It isn't. No one who parks and all of a sudden got tickets (it wasn't just me), has ever heard of this. We have all been parking for years and no other traffic enforcement person has given us a ticket. EVER. The banks were done for conning people into buying unnecessary insurance. Apparently it was legal but it was done in such a way that people didn't know. Much the same I feel I have been conned. There is a little known rule no one ever told me about nor have I ever read it on the coucil website and suddenly I am getting penalized. I can't afford this so I will be trying again. Got nothing to lose.
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Old 16-02-16, 04:31 PM   #6
agy
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Default Re: Need help with PCN

Tom, I am not ignorant. I believe I have done everything to comply with the law by checking Wandsworth parking and even calling them personally.
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Old 16-02-16, 04:50 PM   #7
carelesschucca
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Default Re: Need help with PCN

You keep saying that you didn't know, it's never happened before. On one else has done anything about it, but it's there in writing.

Sorry to say but I think you have two chances with this.
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Old 16-02-16, 04:57 PM   #8
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Default Re: Need help with PCN

It was not meant in an offensive way.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-high.../road-markings

Quote:
Waiting restrictions indicated by yellow lines apply to the carriageway, pavement and verge.
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Old 16-02-16, 05:22 PM   #9
agy
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Default Re: Need help with PCN

If you call the council and they say you can park on the pavement no probs then that's that. Like I say, everyone I spoke to never heard of this fact. Wouldn't even cross my mind to find whether lines apply to the pavement as it makes no logical sense at all. The marking is on the road. Not on the pavement. It's like someone telling you the price of the item on shelf 1 also applies to the DIFFERENT item on shelf 2 although there is no indication of it being the case and item 1 is expensive and item 2 is shabby.

Parking restriction on the road stops vehicles from obstructing the passage of other vehicles or access. No vehicles will be passing through the pavement. It is logical to think the restriction applies to the road that is actually being used. Not the attached pavement that has nothing to do with passage or access of the adjecent road.
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Old 16-02-16, 05:27 PM   #10
Red Herring
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Default Re: Need help with PCN

You may consider this a case of "fine print", but you certainly haven't been conned. I'm guessing that at some point you passed your driving/riding test and that this contained an element of the Highway Code? Read rule 145 (mine's the 2007 edition, if you have a different one then look up "Pavements" in the back). It tells you not to drive (ride) on or over a pavement.

Failing that look up "Parking" in your Highway code. Rule 244 (again might be different in yours) but that specifically tells you not to park on the pavement in London (which I think Wandsworth is) because it's a specific offence under section 15 of the Greater London (General Powers) Act 1974, regardless of how many yellow lines there are.

Incidentally, before anyone else points it out the legislation quoted by the HWC in rule 145 is a load of tosh. It cites the Highway Act 1835 sect 72 which is all about riding horses or tethering livestock on a footpath or part of a road set aside for pedestrians, and the Road Traffic Act 1988 sect 34 which is about driving elsewhere than on a road (and a pavement is most certainly part of a road), so neither piece of legislation is appropriate to riding a motorcycle on a pavement.
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