Engineering career/general life advice...

[Dave20046]

Originally Posted by timwilky

The problem is Chris, Engineers are a much maligned species in this country.

It's not even as specific as that, I'm of the opinion getting good work in your 20s in this country is a bit of lottery.
Of all my friends who have high degrees and further I can't think of a single one working a job in their chosen career bar the ones that have been forced to move to London. Even my sister stayed in education until she hit 30 and landed a decent job.

There are exceptions to that rule , I know a couple of forummers who are. I think your best bets focussing on your own business chris, it'll be knackering bhut working it up to a level where you can be self employed full time would be interesting (assuming there's money to be made) . Employers seem not to appreciate degrees yet do expect them. Ridiculous extreme example;I know my md refuses to employ graduates as they're too 'studenty', which is an unfortunate trade off ; yes the ones that come inboard with no knowledge don't know any better but we're missing out on a good skill set and 'someone' then has to build up a foundation background knowledge with any new recruit before they're of the vaguest use. .. They need to stop putting Alan sugar on tv...

On a more uplifting note we can be assured in this country that we have the highest qualified barista's of all!

I haven't got anything useful to add but I wish you well. People here very much respect but it's adding value to an organisation that brings money. As others have said, the worst that they can do is say no; almost certainly they won't bring you up to the going wage in one go. The most realistic way to get a rise would be to change employers I think.
Do you use your degree for your job?

[timwilky]

I suppose in today terms i was quite lucky. i started an apprenticeship at Leyland trucks (alongside 300 others) back in 76 and 6 months later as people were being allocated to their trades, I became a technical apprentice. Age 19 with an C&G then ONC completed, I had a choice HNC or degree. i was sponsored to to my degree. but because I had my vacation employment back at Leyland, they classed me as also completing my apprenticeship.

Imagine that in todays world. A full grant as I had worked for 3 years before my degree, so no parental income consideration, sponsorship, full rate vacation employment, access to works labs and computers and best of all a full rate job to walk into. No need to do their graduate program.

So age 22, I was working as an R&D engineer and 2 years later became their youngest ever senior engineer. A year later got out of it as I saw the writing on the wall for Leyland and how much better IT job and salaries were.

I am from an era where the country and employers valued an educated workforce. These days with degrees in yogurt weaving being the norm, a degree no longer hold the kudos it did when I was chris's age. My own daughter has a degree in law and a masters in contract law. and earns little more than 20 grand as a legal exec. There appears to be little future for todays graduates, they need to grab any job. The dream ones don't exist any more.

[yorkie_chris]

Agreed about the value of a degree, still I think the portfolio of stuff I've designed and built is worth more than my degree now anyway.

On the other hand my experience in a small firm, is not as easily transferable to a large one? And also, do I want to work for a big corporation and have to deal with tw*ts of accountants and HR managers?

Originally Posted by Amadeus

I haven't got anything useful to add but I wish you well. People here very much respect but it's adding value to an organisation that brings money. As others have said, the worst that they can do is say no; almost certainly they won't bring you up to the going wage in one go. The most realistic way to get a rise would be to change employers I think.
Do you use your degree for your job?

Well, I intend to ask and we see what happens.

Yes I use my degree and also (more so!) the skills from a life of p*ssing about with stuff.
The usual small firm thing of doing a bit of all sorts... sales, measuring up, designing stuff and fitting it.

However the real interesting bit is the design work, some quite interesting stuff from some really big companies, and that's where the value is. Any daft tw*t can answer a phone and take an order for a £20 part and I've got zero interest in this side of it.

[kaivalagi]

Originally Posted by timwilky

These days with degrees in yogurt weaving being the norm, a degree no longer hold the kudos it did when I was chris's age.

Ain't that right, as everyone can get a degree in yogurt weaving these days it belittles the graduate status, even if you're a graduate with a decent degree and classification it doesn't hold the kudos it should.

Having the experience is what really matters now.....Chris, I think getting the decent big industry experience however you can is the solution for you...

I'm not in the same field as you, but I do see a lot of similarities between what you've said and my early career path. As a result, I'll give you the advice I wish I'd had 10 years ago, and that's to not be worried about what will happen if you quit. The grass may not always be greener, but it does usually pay better.

The first port of call is to see your current boss and tell him/her what you're thinking, because if they actually value you they will try and keep you for your domain knowledge. At the same time, have a look in the market and see what jobs with your experience level are paying elsewhere, so you know how far you can push without being unreasonable.

[andrewsmith]

Originally Posted by timwilky

I am from an era where the country and employers valued an educated workforce. These days with degrees in yogurt weaving being the norm, a degree no longer hold the kudos it did when I was chris's age. My own daughter has a degree in law and a masters in contract law. and earns little more than 20 grand as a legal exec. There appears to be little future for todays graduates, they need to grab any job. The dream ones don't exist any more.

I agree with you on that Tim, its eroded the principle of a degree.

I'm another with whats classed as a 'red brick' degree (The Engineering, Sciences/ Maths, Construction fields), and the amount of jobs in my field I applied for and was against people with degrees in English Lit and sociology was stupid.
I qualified as a Building Surveyor, like engineering is a specialised degree.

It took me 2 years to get a permanent job working in a related field (Facilities Management) to my degree.

[Eulaca]

YC, I don't know if you'd want to move from Yorkshire, but places like Triumph are always hiring. I've got a few friends who got jobs there straight out of uni.

[dizzyblonde]

Anything is achievable, with or without a degree.

In order to progress in a career, you need to ask yourself certain 'life' questions, along the lines of

What are your long term goals?
Where do you want to be in 2,5,10 years time?
What would you like to be doing in 2,5,10 years time?
How much experience do you have in your chosen field to use for further career enhancement?
Are you brave enough to step outside Yorkshire?

The list goes on. Can you answer any of the above?

Experience is key, the more jobs under your belt the further you get. The more money you can ask for, the higher up the tree you go.
Regardless of being 'loyal' to a small firm, the big names are the ones to go for. International firms are even better. Small firms can't always offer the money or career incentives .

Wages within Yorkshire are rubbish. Personally thinking, 4 days a week at 8 quid after tax is about right for the region especially regarding age, and experience. Degree... Not knocking but its average. You need to fight harder to attain what you want. There's better qualified out there. Start looking further afield.


I've a very good friend who started with no qualifications. Still not sure what he does, but in recent years he's used big firms to train him, step ladder through from Drax, to Southampton and currently the Shetlands. Hard slog, sacrifice and a lot of moving about to achieve the wage he wants, and the career he wants.

[LewSpeight]

I'm already on more than that, Chris, as a lab manager. And I'm 19 and don't have a degree.
I'd certainly at least push a payrise.