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Old 13-04-15, 04:30 PM   #21
maviczap
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Default Re: Cyclist deaths

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Originally Posted by ClunkintheUK View Post
There is a massive lack of education amongst cyclists, you see it every spring in London as you get more inexperienced riders out on the roads. The reasons for the under education are for a huge number of reasons, from what I saw, but you could usually see exactly who the people who would cause the problems were before they did. A fat bloke on a hybrid is basically white van man, who would ride like they are mark cavendish.
There's plenty of coverage in the cycling press about this, but the cyclists it needs to target don't read these publications.

Gone are the days of cycling proficiency tests, or schools teaching kids as part of the curriculum. My daughter school does an after school cycling club, to teach the kids some road sense, but this is rare.

I did my cycling proficiency test in the school holidays over 40 years ago, does it still exist?

I really dont know how you inform and educate these city cyclists, full page ads in the Metro or Evening Standard?

Regular tv ads in the London area?
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Old 13-04-15, 04:53 PM   #22
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Default Cyclist deaths

Surely the only possibility is having a licence and cyclists getting fined for running red lights, railway crossing barriers etc and even undertaking lorries etc. wouldn't be popular and may reduce people cycling on the road but if it keeps people alive it may be worth it.
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Old 13-04-15, 05:07 PM   #23
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Default Re: Cyclist deaths

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Surely the only possibility is having a licence and cyclists getting fined for running red lights, railway crossing barriers etc and even undertaking lorries etc. wouldn't be popular and may reduce people cycling on the road but if it keeps people alive it may be worth it.
That's never going to happen as it will stop people getting bikes full stop, going agaist govenment policy to get people healthy and exercising, plus reducing the number of vehicles on the road.

where do you start with the licence, kids? Again another reason why govenment won't licence cyclists.

it needs a change in culture, both from vehicle drivers AND cyclists.

Denmark changed their laws to make vehicle drivers at fault for accidents invovling pedestrians and cyclists, unless proved otherwise, which reduced the accidents between these groups, as car drivers drove less aggressively.
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Old 13-04-15, 07:19 PM   #24
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Default Re: Cyclist deaths

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That's never going to happen as it will stop people getting bikes full stop, going agaist govenment policy to get people healthy and exercising, plus reducing the number of vehicles on the road.
Whilst I agree, I don't think it necesarily needs to if a licence costs a tenner and is really only used for identification purposes.

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it needs a change in culture, both from vehicle drivers AND cyclists.
Yup, but how do you change that culture - prosecution would drum it in, like drink driving, seat belts, mobile phones etc. It may change over time but that's a lot of deaths.

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Denmark changed their laws to make vehicle drivers at fault for accidents invovling pedestrians and cyclists, unless proved otherwise, which reduced the accidents between these groups, as car drivers drove less aggressively.
I've not been to Denmark (or Copenhagen) for quite some years but I remember it as very different to London. And of course, the people are very different to the UK people.

As others have said in this thread, lorry drivers aren't (always) being aggressive - they just can't see. It needs cyclists to learn how to behave around lorries, surely? Could lorries be forced to have cameras around them if they're driving in cities for example? Doesn't sound feasible to me (largely because of foreign lorries).
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Old 13-04-15, 07:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: Cyclist deaths

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Indicators are just flashing bulbs.
It doesn't mean anything other than that bulb is working.
Lorry drivers are generally better than this, mostly because of what Red Herring said - they're indicating what they are actually planning to do, because the preparation steps are contrary to the final position.

I think the only way you'll solve the problem is to have a very loud siren on each side of the trailer which comes on with the indicator - you'd have no cases of not seeing the indicator then. Couple it with radar like parking sensors so that both sides are fully aware of what is happening, and then the rest is natural selection...
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Old 13-04-15, 07:26 PM   #26
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Default Re: Cyclist deaths

I like that idea but as the emergency services are under pressure to not use sirens in built up areas (which almost lead me to being hit by a police car), I'm not sure it'd be allowed in places like London. Consider what it'd be like if a lorry was in a queue at traffic lights.
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Old 13-04-15, 07:54 PM   #27
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Default Re: Cyclist deaths

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Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
Whilst I agree, I don't think it necessarily needs to if a licence costs a tenner and is really only used for identification purposes.
Even worse making people pay for a licence

They won't licence dogs, let alone cyclists (Although some folk think they are the same breed )

Adults tend to have some form of ID on them


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Yup, but how do you change that culture - prosecution would drum it in, like drink driving, seat belts, mobile phones etc. It may change over time but that's a lot of deaths.
Yep, totally agree.

A start needs to be made somewhere. Just think how long it took to introduce compulsory seat belt wearing
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Old 13-04-15, 08:05 PM   #28
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Default Re: Cyclist deaths

I'm afraid I'm coming around to the way of think that we shouldn't be trying to do anything about it. We spend far to much time and effort trying to protect people from themselves. If people want to do stupid things then perhaps they should be allowed to take the consequences. Cycling in heavy traffic can be dangerous, just about anyone you ask will tell you that, so why is it that people who cycle in London don't take steps to make sure they are aware of some of the risks and how to avoid them?
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Old 13-04-15, 09:43 PM   #29
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Default Re: Cyclist deaths

All the talk about special segregated cycle lane's won't work either as there is no law making them use them, the same retards now that undertake, shuffle along between lorries and railings and run reds and crossings will carry on doing it as the 'cycle' lanes will probably be too congested and slow for them.

However both the Government and the mayor's office seem to think that those lemmings on pushbikes have more right to use the road than those who have to be taxed and insured to use it, really makes me mad!
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Old 13-04-15, 10:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: Cyclist deaths

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However both the Government and the mayor's office seem to think that those lemmings on pushbikes have more right to use the road than those who have to be taxed and insured to use it, really makes me mad!
They're trying to push London culture towards greater cycle use, which is a good thing. It cuts pollution, it provides greater health for all (even if you don't cycle, your lungs benefit from the cleaner air), it's cheap, there's barely any wear on the roads, you don't need much parking space, and you're much less likely to cause serious injury to anyone else. Oh and the noise you make is utterly negligible too.

London would be a much cleaner and more pleasant city if everyone cycled everywhere. But in order to achieve this, you need to make it safe - even for idiots. Mixing cycles and powered vehicles in the same limited space is obviously very risky, so they're trying to keep them apart as much as possible. If everyone that could possibly cycle did cycle, then would we still have traffic congestion issues?

And I'm not even a cyclist. Perhaps I should put my money where my mouth is and give it a go.
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