EU Referendum

[NTECUK]

De regulation of the bank's and selling off of council house's was indeed the policy of both the neo liberal government's of Labour and Conservative's

For me I would like to see the UK governed by its own people, yes are electoral process could do with reform as the first past the post system it not really fair, but if we vote to stay we can wave good bye to being a self governed state, the people in power of the EU are unelected and therefore unaccountable.
I will be voting leave.

[NTECUK]

In the short term if we keep the status quo,I don't think anyone is going to notice any radical change.
If we leave it could destabilize the remaining EU member's.
So it could be all a big gamble.I think that is why Putin is for out as several former old Soviet state's are up for joining.
Yes it's going to be an interesting old few year's if we hit the eject button.

[Bibio]

Originally Posted by nutzboutbikes

the people in power of the EU are unelected and therefore unaccountable.

its the same in the UK. you vote for who you would like in power but they are only the face of the Gov. the people in the background doing all the hard works are non elected and we call them Civil Servants. in the EU these Civil Servants have more power and are a more prominent figure. you vote for your MEP's and its these MEP's who put ideas forward for the good of their country or to argue the finer points. when things get a bit heated then the heads of state get together and have a chinwag which we call summits.

its not perfect but nothing ever is. it may be broken at the moment but thats not to say it will be in 10/50/100 years.

where i think the public should have a say is new laws and this should be by way of trial and jury with jury members being from every region in the UK picked from the national database.

yes our politicians are corrupt and the Gov is broken just like our country but its what we have. if the people were to get more involved in telling their MP's what to do instead of them making things up to justify their job then we might see change but until then the Gov will do what it likes. take away the restrictions imposed by the EU and we have a Gov that will do what it likes regardless or what the public say.

politicians work for us not themselves. the only person in the Gov that is not responsible to the public is the PM to which he is a servant of the crown.

think of the EU as an extension of our Gov and not some foreign johnny trying to do us harm, there not. they are there for the good of the EU.

i believe that its our Gov that is the problem with the EU and its like a kid in a grocers constantly tugging at their mothers sleeve for a treat and when they dont get it they throw a tantrum.

if the UK had joined the Euro it would have been the most powerful currency in the world but that would have caused a whole load of trouble due to each member of the UK having a legal tender that the BOE was not in control of. cant have that now can we

[theenglishman]

Originally Posted by nutzboutbikes

For me I would like to see the UK governed by its own people, yes are electoral process could do with reform as the first past the post system it not really fair, but if we vote to stay we can wave good bye to being a self governed state, the people in power of the EU are unelected and therefore unaccountable.
I will be voting leave.

Why do you think that by leaving we will be free of European rules? Have you spoken to say a Norwegian about this? I've been working extensively in Norway this year and they are completely bound by EU rules because they can't trade with Europe if they don't comply. It's as simple as that.

Please don't vote because you think or feel something. Please find out the facts and then make up your mind. Because your statement above is factually incorrect and it shows you don't understand how a government - any government - actually works.

Here's a pretty good description of how the EU actually works, written by a reputable American institution

https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RS21372.pdf

Page 2 covers how the EU is governed. As you can see, it's a little more complex than you make out and the people making the decisions are either elected leaders or in some cases people appointed by elected leaders.

So not quite a random room filled with random people.

[theenglishman]

Here's a reasonable, evidence based article on the referendum

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/op...e-england.html

[Red ones]

Making any decision based on dissatisfaction with the current situation is always dangerous if grounded on a thought of the grass being greener on the other side.
How many of us have left a job because we didn't like it then found because we didn't research properly that the new one was worse?

Yes, EU rules will still apply if you wish to trade with it. Yes, we are affected by the Eurozone despite not being in it - our banks are!

Are France likely to continue entertaining our immigration control at Calais, or let us deal with it in Kent?


The older I get the more I see the sovereign state argument a distraction and unhelpful.

[garynortheast]

This is well worth a listen. It's from a man who knows well his subject.

https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y

[theenglishman]

Originally Posted by garynortheast

This is well worth a listen. It's from a man who knows well his subject.

https://youtu.be/USTypBKEd8Y

Good find! My god it's scary if we vote to leave.

[Bri w]

Originally Posted by theenglishman

Here's a reasonable, evidence based article on the referendum

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/op...e-england.html

Jeez, I nearly laughed my socks off!!

Whilst I admit to voting in, I think the article is deeply flawed. For example, it says that Poland and Hungary might well defy European regs... 1) they already are, 2) they'll never leave the supposed disintegrating EU whilst they are, and always have been, net receivers. Poland especially has fought for more integration.

And it can't even get its European history right. Britain, and a much (wrongly) maligned Chamberlain covered countless miles trying to avoid wars. America are rightly recognised around the world for their isolationist policies in the 30's, which Roosevelt fought against from the late 30's, needing the Japanese to do something stupid before the rest of the nation woke up.

As for Britain being to the fore of a united Europe after the war, oh my aching sides!!! That's was when Britain was at it's most isolated as it strove to rebuild itself.

Sorry, but whatever your persuasion, its an appalling article. Its lazy journalism. As an aside, I wonder what the USA would think of us telling them they should be in a Triumvirate with Mexico and Canada, with Mexico having a major say...