HELP court summons received

Originally Posted by -Ralph-

Lothian Speed Camera partnership did it to me MBK, was filed with the court and the court summons came from the Camera Partnership, never went near the PF.

I'm sorry but that is news to me. All reports need to be submitted to the Crown Office. It has to go to the Crown Office before a summons is issued. Anyway, that's irrelevant.

You need to do everything you can to avoid a conviction for this. It happened to me 30 ish years ago, the fine and the points were nothing, it was the increased cost of insurance that hurt for many years. Good luck, on Monday don't forget to phone the brief.

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

Thats my understanding of it to.

If they didnt issue the NIP then I would think that the Solicitor should be able to deal with it swifty. If they did and the OP never received it / lost it, then thats a different matter.

Spot on.

[timwilky]

Are NIPs date stamped with an sequential index number?

Assuming the O/P solicitor asks about the NIP. what is to stop the plod going "Oh Poo" I forgot to issue it as I had cautioned his mate and simply saying "Yes it was issued" How does plod/CPS prove a NIP was issued within the two weeks as required and therefore the prosecution is lawful.

[Red Herring]

Much the same way that the OP proves he didn't receive one, honesty and integrity.

To issue an NIP through the post a police officer doesn't just fill in a form and post it, they have to complete an application and submit it up the paper chain, so actually the police have the honesty and integrity of several people, and the existence of an audit trail, to help prove they did send one. Of course mistakes are made, and I'm sure if it's pointed out early enough by the OP then things can be sorted out.

With regard to disclosure, key statements are generally provided to the defendant when they are initially summonsed, it would be extremely rare for them not to be. Again if this hasn't been done the OP should contact the case file administration for the area where the offence was alleged to have happened. The OP doesn't say which force it was (he says he lives in Kent) but different forces have different names for such departments, but it's normally something like Case Administration or Criminal Justice Unit. Their job is to make sure all the paperwork is correct, they are not particularly biased and if the OP turns up in court and the paperwork hasn't been served correctly then it's them that will cop an earful....

Personally I'm a little intrigued by this thread. Serving an NIP is a basic thing to do and most police motorcyclists are fairly experienced officers. The only time an NIP isn't routinely sent is following a crash and I did notice a recent thread from the OP where he wanted some new forks.... Are you sure about the dates involved?

Can someone clear something up for me? Let's suppose the NIP did get sent by the police and for some reason the OP did not receive it. Maybe someone chucked it on the fire by mistake for example without realising what it was, or threw it in the bin by mistake. What is the next step by the police? Is it to carry on with the prosecution and to submit a summons to court? Or is there a different step the police should take?

I just can't understand how the OP got a court summons for a traffic offence without ever knowing anything about it previously. I would have thought that if the NIP had not been acted on, then there would be another step to be taken by the police before a summons to court was issued? Also, is it not an offence to ignore a NIP? In which case why has the OP not received any notification of any other offence along with the traffic offence?

Confused.

If I had sent a NIP and it wasn't responded to, I would either send another, or just go straight to the Registered Keepers address and personally issue a S172 requirement, or have another force send officers to do it for me.

[Red Herring]

An NIP doesn't require or invite a response, it is just what it says, a notice of intended prosecution. I think some people are confusing it with a Section 172 notice. This is another form the police can send to the registered keeper of a vehicle requiring them to provide the details of the driver at a particular time.
In reality, thanks normally to speed cameras, they tend to be sent out together, however there is no requirement for the police to send out a sect 172 if they already know who the driver was. They are however still required to send an NIP is the offence being considered requires it.

Originally Posted by Red Herring

An NIP doesn't require or invite a response, it is just what it says, a notice of intended prosecution. I think some people are confusing it with a Section 172 notice. This is another form the police can send to the registered keeper of a vehicle requiring them to provide the details of the driver at a particular time.
In reality, thanks normally to speed cameras, they tend to be sent out together, however there is no requirement for the police to send out a sect 172 if they already know who the driver was. They are however still required to send an NIP is the offence being considered requires it.

Yes but in this case, I would suggest that a S172 should have been sent with the NIP.

Originally Posted by Red Herring

there is no requirement for the police to send out a sect 172 if they already know who the driver was

So is a friend who was riding with the OP, having named him at the side of the road, sufficient for the Police to deem that they KNOW who the driver is? Or in this case, should they still S172?