110 miles on MT09SP

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Red Herring

Seeker, have you tried dropping your tyre pressures yet and if so how did it change things?

only by 3psi front and rear so far. It sounds crazy but I thought it seemed worse but that might be because I was low on petrol.

[garynortheast]

I guess it depends on what tyres you have, but I always know when my tyre pressures are low, even by just a couple of pounds as the bike tends to track all the ridges and banded edges of repairs to the road. There are lots of them around here too!

[Red Herring]

I'm a little rusty around the MT09SP as it has been a while since I rode one and much of the observations I was making earlier were from memory..... so I did a little digging and tried to find an objective point of view from someone who knows a thing or two about bikes. MCN had a long termer and although you do need to take what they say with a little pinch of salt they do tend to hit the important points quite well. This is a cut and paste from their final overall view on the MT09SP....

On Tyres

"Yamaha’s MT-09 SP is a lovely motorcycle that as standard is only dragged down by two things; the harsh out-of-the-crate suspension settings and the poor quality of the OE tyres. Japanese manufacturers are notorious for driving very hard bargains when it comes to OE rubber while at the same time having very specific requirements for things like longevity and stability. The end result is that the stock Bridgestone S20s are very different from the ones you’d buy from a dealer; right down to compound and construction.

Simply, they let down a brilliant bike. Slow to warm up, they offer very little in the way of feel and unnerve you in the wet. However, in the dry on an abrasive road surface they offer enough grip and I found their inherent harshness was reduced if I lowered rear tyre pressure to 36psi. But there was a price for this. After 1500 miles they were starting to square off and handling deteriorated rapidly, picking up on camber changes and needing more effort from the bars.

My replacement was Michelin’s Power RS. Designed as a fast road tyre that Michelin claim can handle decent track use, they fitted the bill perfectly. A multi-compound tyre, they follow the tradition of a silica-rich, harder centre and softer edges with very little tread.

Handling was instantly improved. Ride-quality, steering and chassis feel moved a step forward, imbuing the MT with a weightless quality and giving the confidence to use the triple’s joyous torque on corner exits. They’re surprisingly good in the wet, too.

On track, it was much of the same; although Cadwell Park on a very hot summer’s day meant localised overheating when I pushed really hard, but even then they remained friendly. Best of all, they lasted more than 3000 road miles after the trackday and, although they’d started to square, the bike still handled well.

Since then I’ve also tried rival Pirelli’s Diablo Rosso Corsa II and Dunlop’s SportSmart TT. Both are slightly grippier track tyres but the Yamaha doesn’t steer as well on the Pirellis and the Dunlop’s stiff carcass means its on-road ride quality is worse. But if you own an MT-09 SP, any of these three will help unlock its true potential."

On Suspension
"That set-up needs some work. There’s nothing wrong with the suspension’s quality; it’s just that the standard settings are too stiff. This affects stability and doesn’t allow enough weight transfer for good feel. The recommended soft settings are dialled-in and work well on the road. The rear shock’s preload, rebound and compression can be adjusted by hand, but you need a 4mm allen key, two spanners and a screwdriver for the front."

Now I appreciate their style is somewhat sportier than the OP but there is an awful lot of information in there that could help him avoid chucking more money at a bike that I somehow suspect is never going to do what he wants it to.

[Adam Ef]

I was going to say go Michelin tyres as they have a softer feel (sidewalls) and go slightly below recommended pressure. I had the stock Pirelli tyres on my 2014 Street Triple and they were harsh as hell (whole bike overall gave me similar issues to what you're describing with your MT09), but bike felt much better and slightly dampened with Metzeler Roadtec 01 tyres fitted and run a few psi below spec. I've found Michelin Road 5 are even better for a more compliant ride.

[Seeker]

whilst I appreciate the input over tyres, the fundamental problem is that (imho) the fork's spring rate doesn't match my weight. I need to get that resolved (if possible), I make allowances for the SV because it's a relatively inexpensive bike, the Yam doesn't get to use that excuse - it's the most expensive vehicle I've ever owned.

I've now done 400 miles - I left Grimsby on the A46 and for the first two miles it's like tree roots have ridged the road every few hundred yards, on the SV it's unpleasant but on the Yam I get a vertical kick through the bars followed by being launched off the seat.
I heard back from the Belgian company that KYB UK directed me to - "sorry but they have no experience with the MT09".

[DJ123]

See if you can find a garage with a used MT09 with different tyres, so you can tell if there's a difference the tyres make.

[Red Herring]

Originally Posted by Seeker

whilst I appreciate the input over tyres, the fundamental problem is that (imho) the fork's spring rate doesn't match my weight.

It seems to me that you have convinced yourself that your only solution is to change the springs and as a result you are quite simply not prepared to consider alternatives. Perhaps you should be asking why it is that there seems to be so little off the shelf alternative suspension available? Could it be that there is very little demand for it? I know you are on the lighter side of rider but you're not that unique. I'm starting to wonder just what settings you have now managed to dial into your bike to make it as bad as you describe......

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by Red Herring

It seems to me that you have convinced yourself that your only solution is to change the springs and as a result you are quite simply not prepared to consider alternatives. Perhaps you should be asking why it is that there seems to be so little off the shelf alternative suspension available? Could it be that there is very little demand for it? I know you are on the lighter side of rider but you're not that unique. I'm starting to wonder just what settings you have now managed to dial into your bike to make it as bad as you describe......

Fair point, cognitive bias can lead you along the wrong path.

As for the settings, initially I left them at Yamaha factory values. The manual also gives you suggested values for "soft" so I tried them; they seemed worse. I went back to Yamaha factory values, left the rear shock at those values and moved the fork settings (rebound, fast and slow compression) to half way between factory and soft. The ride quality was still very harsh.
I lowered tyre pressures by 3psi front and rear.

I should also add that preload on the rear comes set to minimum and I get about 30 mm sag. Preload on the forks comes set to 18mm thread showing
- the soft setting is only 1mm different at 19mm (that is the minimum value you can set)

I don't have the sag value with gear on this laptop but I measured it again yesterday with no gear (ignoring the fact that the forks are upside down), it gave a value of 15mm with me sat on it. The forks have a theoretical max travel of 137mm - I would have expected a sag value closer to 35mm.

There have been a few tyre suggestions and, if I was looking for a 5% tweak they'd be valid, but I need the suspension to be at least 50% better than it is now. My stock SV is noticeably more comfortable.

I've watched videos where they demonstrate that you should be able to push down at the front of the tank to get a feel for the compression of forks. When I try they barely move, ok I'm short and my leverage isn't that great so maybe that's the reason, but I can compress my SV forks. The SV and the MT09 weigh about the same.

It has reached the point where I need professional help (the number of times I've been told that ) which will at least tell me if what I want is achievable or whether I'll be looking for a new bike.

[Adam Ef]

Might be worth contacting JHS. They're very good with suspension knowledge apparently. They might at least be able to tell you if you have options.

[Red Herring]

Seeker, please feel free to tell me not to be so rude......but is there any chance you're not twiddling the various bits and pieces the way you think you are.......? Your experiences are just so at odds with any I've come across before, and I've been fiddling with both mine and others bikes for over thirty years now.