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Old 07-12-18, 08:35 AM   #1
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Default the rights of the citizen versus society

You have probably read about the "take down" of the (alleged?) moped thief by the police; they have taken to knocking the rider off the bike.

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/...scooter-crime/

I am unsure how I feel about this but I'm leaning towards supporting the police. I would sum it up my mind that the rights of the many outweigh the rights of the one (apologies to Star Trek). Moped crime is (was) increasing and the police had to do something and society shouldn't be hostage to singular criminal citizens.

When trying to catch an errant rider in a city there are few choices; let them go, corner them with multiple units (not usually practical), chase them with a helicopter (again, not always practical) or ram them. What happens if the rider is killed? Would that be unnecessary force?

I understand the officer may be prosecuted which I think is wrong. Difficult problem to solve, though.
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Old 07-12-18, 09:48 AM   #2
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

I think this is a great idea, I have to admit it made me laugh when I saw the clips.
It should be a great deterrent - although most of these muppets on the scooters are clueless ****wits so I doubt they will weigh up the risks.
Maybe the police could even go one step further and then reverse over the little ****s too. Just an idea.
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Old 07-12-18, 10:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

The facts speak for themselves, a drop of nearly 50% in this crime, and the best bit is it does not cost much. Helicopters are horrendously expensive to run and more effective in the rural . suburban areas than in crowded cities. It is high time that if people are involved in criminal activity they lose some of their rights.

A case is point is the two remaining 'beatles' that have fought for IS in various countries, they wanted a trial in UK because they knew they would get 6 months suspended and if they were lucky could sue UK for compensation, but they have rightly had their UK citizenship removed and been shipped to USA for a trial ( after all they did torture and behead a few Americans).

Dianne Abbot was predictable in as much as she condemned the fascist police for knocking the poor defenceless crims off their scooters , but she is a liability anyway but probably the least of Labours problems at the moment.
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Old 07-12-18, 12:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

I'm very torn. On the one hand I'd like to see the police get a grip on crime and protection for the officers concerned. On the other as a northern boy from the coalfields I remember the unidentified southern PCs barracked at army depots doing whatever they wanted back in 84 and hence believe we need to keep them on a short leash.

There are still whole towns who don't trust the police and will not help them.
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Old 08-12-18, 10:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

i say beat the muthers with big sticks as well. they are making ordinary citizens life's a nightmare. they steal the mopeds then steal stuff using the mopeds then endanger other people by going on a rampage. what happens when they start knocking people over then killing them including kids.

knock them over and give them a good kicking. if they die then good riddance. one less scum to pollute the gene pool.
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Old 08-12-18, 11:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibio View Post
i say beat the muthers with big sticks as well. they are making ordinary citizens life's a nightmare. they steal the mopeds then steal stuff using the mopeds then endanger other people by going on a rampage. what happens when they start knocking people over then killing them including kids.

knock them over and give them a good kicking. if they die then good riddance. one less scum to pollute the gene pool.
+1

time for zero tolerance +++ to be unleashed.
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Old 08-12-18, 12:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

Bristol has been really bad for bike and moped theft the last few years. Mainly due to gangs of kids who like to show off on social media. The Police seemed to do nothing for about 2 years. Understandably a lot of local people wanted to go vigilante seeing the Police do nothing and seeing the kids start account after account on Instagram and Facebook showing bikes being stolen, raced and then burnt while they posed around them.
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Old 08-12-18, 07:31 PM   #8
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

What amuses me is the popular support among bikers for police knocking lawbreakers off scooters but the outrage at police using a stinger to stop lawbreakers on proper motorbikes.

Double standards...?
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Old 09-12-18, 09:22 AM   #9
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

Hmm, tricky one.

Knocking someone off their moped seems a little excessive, but I can't think of another reasonable way to stop a determined moped rider.

Maybe sometimes a stinger can be deployed to deflate their tyres, but unlike cars they can just take to the pavement to bypass the stinger. It might also be possible for a PC on a motorcycle to get all over their rear wheel with a chuffing loud siren and harry them until they make a mistake. But I don't think either of these are reliable options.

So, ignoring all the rhetoric about "scumbags deserved it", I don't see that the police have any other way to stop dangerous criminals on mopeds. I wouldn't see it as appropriate for a teenager who rode off without paying for petrol, but for violent criminals who pose a danger to the general public this is probably the best option for stopping them.

Regarding the 35% decrease in moped crime, that probably reflects the fact that the gang targeted by the police was responsible for a large proportion of moped crime in that area. I don't think hard stop tactics are a significant factor in discouraging moped crime.

Just my thoughts,

Keith.

Last edited by keith_d; 09-12-18 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 09-12-18, 09:53 AM   #10
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Default Re: the rights of the citizen versus society

I think the thought of being knocked off your scooter / moped may be a big deterrent - some scooter riders were taking their helmet off while riding in the hope that 'it would be too dangerous to knock them off - the police said it would not deter a police driver from knocking them off - good call
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