AR Marking Discussion

[fizzwheel]

Righto

it seems one of the issues with the AR is how the marking is being done.

I posted my thoughts on the matter in the big forum debate thread but one of the other mods has suggested that its getting lost in amongst the general discussion.

This is my thoughts on the matter

Personally speaking I led some of last years AR and I did TEC for most of it. I wanted a group of riders who I trusted would stop where I wanted them to. I felt this especially important, on the day I had 80 odd bikes behind me, one missed junction because somebodies not familiar with the drop off system would have led to utter chaos.

The idea behind the set markers was that.

There were 6 odd that have run the route before and knew it
The rest were made up with people who I had utmost faith in, i.e. I trusted them to stop and stay there till the TEC came past.

I've been on plenty rideouts where junctions dont get marked or somebody gets bored and decides not to wait. I've been on them, I've been mid pack and faced with a junction where I didnt know where to go. Its bl**dy annoying and frustrating sometimes.

I appreciate the point about being involved and that last year some people were denied that opportunity, but I feel on this point that its a necessary evil in order to ensure the rideout goes smoothly and people dont get lost.

I think its a credit to the system and the markers running with it that nobody last year got lost. Nobody feell off and everybody seemed to really enjoy it. We had a small issue with Messie and road rage that Grinch deallt with and some dodgy overtaking but that was about it from what I saw

So discuss. Does the system work. Do we mess with a system that has been run previously and proven do work. Is the removal of the opportunity for participation on this fair or not fair. Is the removal of participation so that the rideout progresses smoothly and nobody gets lost due to non marked junctions worth sacrificing some level of participation on.

I know that on AR08 when we started the 2nd leg out of Dorchester we could have done with a few more markers as some people that didnt have marker vests on stopped and marked the junction.

Just because theres a dedicated marker system in place, my thoughts are that it does not prevent anybody from stopping and marking a junction thats not been marked or that the feel needs marking.

But... marking is not an excuse to ride like a complete moron and bully your way through the pack whillst making a series of dodgy / dangerous overtakes...

I wasn't at AR08 and have only been on a couple of rides where the marker system was employed.

My view is - if it ain't broke, don't fix it...

That said perhaps the number of markers needs careful consideration.

I have been on one big ride on here where folks got lost. Having said that I too don't like feeling I am on a guided tour in a sea of yellow. I have been on trail rides with a big group (20....don't even ask!) where my own refusal to wear yellow resulted in folks getting lost (but the circs then are different and they deserved it )

I think some may think the markers are some form of an elite clique. Maybe. BUT without them you run into trouble. I have had more than one occassion where someone has contacted me and said 'I'll tail end your group for you' and then they don't have a clue what the route is, despite their assurances. Yes, they wanted a bigger role, but it resulted in more hassle for me. It's also surprising the numebr of folks who have neither a clue where they are or can apply common sense with directions and locations. And don't even go to can they read a map!

Its all very well wanting a go at marking, but if you have any uncertainty you are much better just enjoying the ride.

Ok, I know marking can be thought of as not needing to know the route, as the leader and TEC will do but in a large AR type group if you don't you are asking for trouble in event of breakdown, problems, the unexpected that will usually happen. Remember also some of these people will be those who have proven they can troubleshoot a bike problem, mend a tyre etc. Would you rather be stuck with a marker who would call the AA or one who might check if your battery lead has just fallen off? In a large group that is also a consideration.

For me its the call of the run organiser and when I occasionally have organised a run to be able to relax you need people behind you you can trust, there's plenty to do leading a run and I don't think some folks appreciate it. Its also at times especially when you have new people rather stressful, which people should bear in mind.

[Messie]

One small point - the route as I have ridden does not seem to need a huge number of markers. By this mean I don't think there are any sections where there are more than about 4-6 junctions in a row, so I don't think we're going to run out

Having said that though, Supervox is the expert on the route and what's needed

My thoughts on the matter were. The system clearly works but can it improve so it is more enjoyable. I suggested greater rider involvment and participation by everyone marking and playing a greater role in the ride.

It would be more pressure on everyone as it would take a greater amount of communication so everyone understands the system.

I have been on rides where it has worked really well but it means you need to spell out beforehand how it works as well as on the day. As well as empowering everyone to play a greater role it allows more freedom to move about. It's a buzz to see bikes going past you if you are marking and know you are part of the ride. You dont get to experience this being number 56 of 80 throughout the ride.

I've been on rides where people have been confused and marking hasnt worked but all of these happened where riders werent clearly informed before the event how the system works. It's probably the most common fault and then organisers point the fingure at individuals.

Anyways it was just a suggestion on how things can be perhaps maybe improved and I was just coming up with some ideas. For the record I wasnt unhappy about the current system at all as my only AR was 06 - it was just an idea to get people more involved on the day.

Cheers,
Grant

[Skip]

Having marked at AR07 I have to say that the system just works - end of. I had absolutely no idea of the route before hand but just waited until I was the next marker behind the leader and stopped when he pointed to the place he wanted me to. It was pouring with rain throughout the whole rideout and no-one got lost, fell off etc.

Originally Posted by fizzwheel

But... marking is not an excuse to ride like a complete moron and bully your way through the pack whillst making a series of dodgy / dangerous overtakes...

I think this is the problem - people have seen how it works and want to be one of the supposed "priviledged few" who get to overtake everyone and make it back to the front rather than being "herded" from one stop to the next. Not everyone can do it and I totally agree with Fizz that it makes sense for them to be trusted individuals selected by the organisers - I wouldnt have been chosen for the AR07 marking if I hadnt joined the Soho lot in the ride up to Yorkshire as otherwise they would have had no idea as to the way I ride and whether I was the sort of person who would be sensible about the whole thing. There is no point having a bunch of "hot-heads" (which lets be honest are the sort of riders who would be saying "me, me, me" to be a marker) as risks could be taken where unneccessary.

Just my 2p...

[SoulKiss]

Originally Posted by Demonz

My thoughts on the matter were. The system clearly works but can it improve so it is more enjoyable. I suggested greater rider involvment and participation by everyone marking and playing a greater role in the ride.

It would be more pressure on everyone as it would take a greater amount of communication so everyone understands the system.

I have been on rides where it has worked really well but it means you need to spell out beforehand how it works as well as on the day. As well as empowering everyone to play a greater role it allows more freedom to move about. It's a buzz to see bikes going past you if you are marking and know you are part of the ride. You dont get to experience this being number 56 of 80 throughout the ride.

I've been on rides where people have been confused and marking hasnt worked but all of these happened where riders werent clearly informed before the event how the system works. It's probably the most common fault and then organisers point the fingure at individuals.

Anyways it was just a suggestion on how things can be perhaps maybe improved and I was just coming up with some ideas. For the record I wasnt unhappy about the current system at all as my only AR was 06 - it was just an idea to get people more involved on the day.

Cheers,
Grant

That would be great if there wasn't such a wide range of ability in the group on the AR.

Dedicated Markers, who have the skill and ability to safely out-ride the average attendee to get back into position to mark are the only way I see of it really working.

Personally its Voxy's baby, let him sort it out as he sees fit, its not really an aspect that requires democratic debate......

[Luckypants]

The AR is such a big ride, it would be all too easy for something to think 'someone else will mark this turn' and something is not marked, folks get lost. Plus there are so many bikes (and not all SVs) that you would not recognise most of the bikes on the ride and can easily leave at the wrong moment, folks get lost....

So having designated markers that know the route works well, everyone knows where they stand WRT marking and can relax.

I say leave things as they are.

I've been to 3 AR's now and marked 2, and this year I'd rather not mark as I want to enjoy the ride as I'm hoping to get pic's on route. Something that me marking as well will make a touch more difficult.

[ophic]

Originally Posted by Grinch

I want to enjoy the ride

me too. Don't understand why people want to mark. You can't help if help isn't required. I'd much prefer an experienced group of markers to a bunch of people who are only doing the job cos they shouted loudly about it.

Was it AR04 when a big bunch of us got lost?