NW Rideouts & accidents

OK, firstly, my intention here is not a naming & shaming session, so I won't be going in to details. If the people involved wish to post their perspective it will be appreciated, but is certainly not required.

To date (as most people know), there have been 4 .Org rideouts organised in North Wales. On these rideouts, there have been at one serious crash on each. Of those 4 crashes, there have been 4 written off bikes, and one person off work long term because of their injuries. IMO it's only by pure luck that no-one has been more seriously injured, and I'm keen to prevent that happening. It's specifically for this reason that I've put my name down for BikeSafe with FBOS element. However, training for the aftermath of an accident is far from ideal.

I'm not aware of any other section of the .Org having such a high rate of ride-outs :: accidents, and this has been bugging me for a long while.

From what I can see, there is no correlation between the accidents. However, the only vaguely common factor is unknown roads. The brief history of events is essentially (to my memory anyway - let me know if my thinking is wrong):
- Very experienced rider on very familiar road, target fixation.
- Experienced rider on vaugley familiar road, loss of grip.
- Relatively new rider on unfamiliar roads, loss of grip.
- Experienced rider (I don't know where this one happened, nor if the rider knew the area so wont comment further).

IMO, the safety breifing given before each rideout has always been excellent.

I know we're all big boys & girls, and I also know that NW rideouts have been growing in popularity (so much that some people had to find their own accomodation on NW3), so does anyone have any ideas on what could be done/said to help the situations we've had in the past be avoided? Naturally not holding another NW rideout is just not even thinkable!!

N Wales has some of the most challenging roads in the UK, theres no getting away from that, and so far the organisation, planning, running of the events has been first class, personally I thinks its down to unfarmiliar roads, but thats just my opinion, trouble is how do make the roads more familiar without actually riding them ? I havent ever seen any pressure being applied to riders to 'keep up' or 'make progress' etc.. which has always been a plus point for me cos I just want to ride with friends and not nessecarily (sp ?) go for a hoon, ultimately I think its down to the individual to find a pace he/sh,e happy with and stick with it.

I think it all boils down to the ride at your own limits thing, most people do. Sometimes people get it wrong, its natural, we're human. I think things have just been a bit unlucky with it being the North Wales, as I for one can admit, they are top weekends.

[_Stretchie_]

I think it could just be 'one of those things' mate to be honest.

I've been riding for just over 2.5 years, covered over 30,000 bike miles and lucky enough to normally ride in South Wales and a fair bit of mileage in the Lake district but also cover motorways and A and B roads and ride in all weather conditions. So not like I'm not used to the roads that twist and turn or riding in the rain.

I would consider myself a safe and considerate rider who is respectful of the dangers of the road and as such am not and never will be a hooligan.

I am far from the best rider in the world but I also consider myself more than competant to ride any bike because of those factors and would scare myself before taking a bike too far.

That corner on this instance could have been done at a much greater speed than we were doing it, although we weren't hanging around it was taken into consideration it was wet.

On top of that I've been driving for 10 years covered god knows how many miles and this is my first ever accident.

Again it could all just be a nasty coincidence????

Originally Posted by _Stretchie_

I think it could just be 'one of those things' mate to be honest.

I have a gut feeling that it is, but on the off chance that there is something that everyone could do, as a group, I felt it best to explore the options.

NW1 happened, and it was IMO, just a random bike accident. They happen, big deal. NW2, same road, different bend, maybe that had something to do with it but shrugged it off. NW3, road/weather conditions were probably the main contributing factor. NW3.5 I've heard was again road/weather conditions.

As said by me & others, the planning/prep/briefing beforehand has always been excellent, and I see no need to change that in any way.

The only ways forward I can see, aren't very attractive ones, which is why I haven't said my entire thoughts on the subject, I'd like as many opinions as possible first.

accidents happen.

i found the roads very slippy on NW3.5 i was taking it a bit easy as i did not know the roads, and felt my back wheel kicking out a few times, i would put the accident down to the weather, i was behind stretchie, and i dont think he did anything wrong, it was just an accident

Something that has just been mentionned to me, is the idea of splitting the rideout (not just along the same route, but different routes for different groups).

Now that BP has more members than we had for previous rideouts, perhaps this is more feasable.

That way, we could for example, have one group of faster riders and a stipulation that if you want a bimble, or aren't sure if you're up to the pace, you don't join that group.

Another group could be 'for anyone & everyone' - probably cover less distance (so people would be less knackered at the end of it), and able to ride at a slower, more relaxed pace.

Thoughts?

Dave, that is what we did on NW2 and it worked very well mate. I TEC the faster group and was very fun, then again I was trucking nackered at every stop. IIRC you led the other group and we all met up again.

[dizzyblonde]

In the pics of stretchies off, me and im Indoors noticed that the road had slippy surface on part of the corner and grippy surface on the other. Added to the weather I think it was just one of those things. By the looks of the rain, it seems almost the same conditions as the NW3, abait maybe a little warmer. At times I found the roads on the NW3 challenging(getting used to a rebuilt bike), never been riding down there before, but I never rode in France neither and it peeeed it down there too. I ride in all weathers and all over, so Wales is no different, just somewhere new, accidents happen as Hovis said.
The one one NW3, had other factor like newish tyres, new bike etc. But at the same time it may have been me(new suspension, engine might have ceased with bad cams) or the next person.
Perhaps, and please don't flame me for this, but, maybe the need to keep up( even though its made clear we don't and won't pressure anyone to do this) is a factor, or getting a little too brave, as you get more comfy in the conditions etc, or just being a bloke( this is a poke of humour nothing intended by it)

Its just a case of shiit happens, I'm afraid

Originally Posted by Baph

Something that has just been mentionned to me, is the idea of splitting the rideout (not just along the same route, but different routes for different groups).

Now that BP has more members than we had for previous rideouts, perhaps this is more feasable.

That way, we could for example, have one group of faster riders and a stipulation that if you want a bimble, or aren't sure if you're up to the pace, you don't join that group.

Another group could be 'for anyone & everyone' - probably cover less distance (so people would be less knackered at the end of it), and able to ride at a slower, more relaxed pace.

Thoughts?

But by that very suggestion aren`t you assuming that people are riding beyond their abilities? To me there was nothing wrong with riding in one large group.... i didn`t feel under pressure to keep up with anyone whatsoever, in fact it was stressed to me that I must ride within my own comfort zone. The large group naturally broke into smaller groups anyway with riders of different abilities in each group.

I can`t see how 2 groups is going to prevent accidents... I might be reading this incorrectly but the way I read it is that you`re implying that people of different abilities are all bunched together and this is contributing to the accident rate. This isn`t so because apart from one person the accidents have all involved experienced riders.