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Old 10-03-09, 11:23 AM   #11
missyburd
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Default Re: 6 months and qualified to teach kids?

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Originally Posted by timwilky View Post
Maybe it is better to get in place academically qualified and teach them to teach, rather than teach teachers the subject they are to teach.
+1. It's quite alarming the number of teachers about who seem to have applied for positions with no subject qualifications and don't have a clue. The Chemistry teacher I had at A-level was a lovely perosn but barely out of uni herself and even told us she did crap at a-level which obviously instilled much reassurance...

Whereas bad teaching isn't such a problem at uni as you're supposed to do much of the reading yourself (), it is a necessity at school level. Especially as bad teaching is enough to put you off education for life and in turn the chance to gain more qualifications that put you in good stead later on.
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Old 10-03-09, 11:30 AM   #12
missyburd
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Default Re: 6 months and qualified to teach kids?

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if its no use to the real world theres no point doing it. thats what keeps academics in the job, teaching undergraduates is just part of the role.
Indeed every lecturer at uni has their own research projects to be getting on with, they are generally required to teach whether they really want to or not. Most contracts have teaching as a compulsory aspect, like it or lump it. In fact, I don't even think much training is required to teach undergraduates as you are, in effect, educating young adults who shouldn't need to be spoonfed.

University teaching isn't really the issue here, we're mainly on about compulsory education.
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Old 10-03-09, 12:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: 6 months and qualified to teach kids?

Some interesting replies here. I'm not certain about the opinon that academics who lecture at universities don't see how their subjects relate to the real world; from the people I have been taught by, it would seem the opposite is true. My physical chemistry lecturer told me a great story about lions, poo and chocolate and several other lecturers have given very strong examples of real-world chemistry, in relation to their teachings.

The other day, Maria's younger brother was in a right state about a chemistry KS3 test he has coming up. He dosn't know what he should be learning and what he shouldn't be - I thought this was a disgrace. Why dosn't his teacher give out a list of all the topics the kids will be covering at the beginning of each term? that way, the kids can tick off what they have done, and know what they have been taught, and when it comes to revision, they already have an idea of how to structure it. Additionally, he is not being taught maths very well - he's asked his parents for a private tutor, aswell as asking me to sit down with him and help him (i had a crap teacher for GCSE, and ended up shying away from maths until university, when I brought a text book and taught myself from it).

I would like to teach chemistry and maybe even maths to kids one day; I used to want to only teach A-level or upwards, but knowing how kids are struggling, perhaps I should have a crack at secondary education teaching, and try to not make the same mistakes as the teachers Maria's brother has and my maths teacher made.
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Old 10-03-09, 12:03 PM   #14
Dappa D
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Default Re: 6 months and qualified to teach kids?

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Originally Posted by alpinestarhero View Post
Some interesting replies here. I'm not certain about the opinon that academics who lecture at universities don't see how their subjects relate to the real world; from the people I have been taught by, it would seem the opposite is true. My physical chemistry lecturer told me a great story about lions, poo and chocolate and several other lecturers have given very strong examples of real-world chemistry, in relation to their teachings.

The other day, Maria's younger brother was in a right state about a chemistry KS3 test he has coming up. He dosn't know what he should be learning and what he shouldn't be - I thought this was a disgrace. Why dosn't his teacher give out a list of all the topics the kids will be covering at the beginning of each term? that way, the kids can tick off what they have done, and know what they have been taught, and when it comes to revision, they already have an idea of how to structure it. Additionally, he is not being taught maths very well - he's asked his parents for a private tutor, aswell as asking me to sit down with him and help him (i had a crap teacher for GCSE, and ended up shying away from maths until university, when I brought a text book and taught myself from it).

I would like to teach chemistry and maybe even maths to kids one day; I used to want to only teach A-level or upwards, but knowing how kids are struggling, perhaps I should have a crack at secondary education teaching, and try to not make the same mistakes as the teachers Maria's brother has and my maths teacher made.
you sir, sound like the ideal candidate
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Old 10-03-09, 12:32 PM   #15
yorkie_chris
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Default Re: 6 months and qualified to teach kids?

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Originally Posted by Daimo View Post
Home learning ftw.

That or public school.

I didn't even realise its only Kent that has Grammer Schools. My child/ren will go to a Grammer school. Being from a normal high school, I dont want my kids going there.
There are 2 grammar schools in Halifax.

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All the older generation of teachers at my old school are leaving this year..
Place is going to be a shambles.

All the younger teachers are good for drama/music ect..

But for the 'academic' subjects, physics maths ect, the younger teachers i got, were sh!te tbh.
Maybe they just need experience.

Uni leacturers seem to be academics that never leave uni, go from to school, get a degree/doctorate and stay at the uni to teach. Never see what their subjects realate to in the real world.
All my college lecturers have worked in the industry for a fair amount of years, and got qualifications through their work.
For advice on getting jobs, or further education, i just ask them.

After numerous emails and phone calls to the local uni, i gave up.
2 months and no reply, bar stewards.
Riiiiight then, go ask some of the lecturers in MechEng at leeds then, you may notice that the guy who teaches thermodynamics worked at rolls royce for 20 years on combustion R+D, now does CFD research as well as lecturing. The guy teaching basic fluid mechanics is a research fellow in tribology.
All of the lecturers on my course are researchers first, and all that stuff that doesn't relate to the real world at all just happens to keep your bike running, planes in the air and weapons hitting their targets.

Don't lump my lot in with arts students boy!
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Old 10-03-09, 12:33 PM   #16
Miss Alpinestarhero
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Default Re: 6 months and qualified to teach kids?

I would be extremely concerned if the length of training was cut to 6 months..even at the current standards of training, schools seem to be failing at providing kids with a decent & enjoyable education.

I understand that there is a desperate need for teachers in various subjects but skipping on the training is hardly going to help. Matt has already mentioned how stressed out and upset my younger brother was over his KS3 exam - his science teacher doesn't know anything. My brother is really quite clever for his age, he's extremely curious and soaks up knowledge like a sponge. He has asked his science teacher so many questions that the teacher himself fails to answer. i.e. "how do you know how far away jupiter is if you've never been there physically"

How can he possibly learn if his teacher can't answer the questions? How can children learn if their teachers don't know more than the bog-standard text books? Obviously teachers can't know eveything but there comes a disconcerting moment when you realise that they cant even answer a childs question.

Maria
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Old 10-03-09, 12:37 PM   #17
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Default Re: 6 months and qualified to teach kids?

Seems quite obvious that the teacher has no interest in the subject that he's teaching then.
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Old 10-03-09, 12:37 PM   #18
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i worked as a teaching assistant for 5 years in Scotland before moving. I wouldnt want to be a teacher for all the money in the world. We had 2 probationer teachers who already have a degree in something and therefore only had to do a 2 year accelerated teachers course. 1 year at uni (both agreed it was really really hard) and 1 year actually taking a class with "support" from qualified teacher. 1 of the probationers was a 40 year old qualified dentist, who decided after she qualified that it was not for her. Too many bits of paper to complete and write up. No discipline in the school. Too many parents who did not give a toss and use school as a babysitting service. When she had free rein to do a subject the way she wanted to she loved it as did the kids. she had them dressing up, tasting different foods, writing stories and poems, decorating the class room but she could only do it her way once a month as rest of time was spent following the curriculum.

The new teachers are usually really good, keen with great ideas. These ideas are squashed once they actually start in a school. The worse teachers I found were the ones who were in mid late 50s as they resisted change and did same projects all the time, knew them inside out and did not want to try anything new. Just treading water til retirement. When they would come back as supply teachers at £120 a day
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Old 10-03-09, 12:49 PM   #19
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Default Re: 6 months and qualified to teach kids?

There are two major problems with the education system.

1. Dumbing down.
2. Government meddling. Any education policy takes years to have any effect, and even if they come up with good policies they're nullified by constantly moving the goal posts.

Teaching standards are clearly an issue and that's certainly influenced by those join the profession, but I don't think this 6 months business will have much effect. Certainly not as much as the fact that no capable graduate is going to choose to get stuck in a low paid profession teaching a new generation of feral children the government helped create when they could be making more money with less stress elsewhere.

Actually that's not quite true, you can make money in teaching, but only if you progress beyond the classroom. So you end up with the best teachers no longer teaching. Stupid.
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Old 10-03-09, 12:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: 6 months and qualified to teach kids?

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When they would come back as supply teachers at £120 a day
My mum has often considered going back into supply teaching, the pay is great. And yet from what I remember at school, supply teachers were just there for the sake of it, they didn't even need to teach just to "mind" the class (this usually resulted in class havoc with people throwing stuff and backchatting ).

I keep asking her why she doesn't go back into teaching at secondary school when the pays good and she could walk into a high position and she just says people are i it for the money and the competition for promotion, the general "sod-the-kids" attitude. It's just not an attractive workplace anymore. It's not about the kids and quality of teaching, it's about filling up spaces and passing inspections, a real shame.
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