Curvy power problems

[daktulos]

Originally Posted by Seeker

Measure the battery voltage before starting, measure it again as you press the starter to see what it drops to, record the voltage at idle with and without the heated grips, measure it again at 2-3k rpm. You'll then have a better idea if everything is functioning correctly.

Cheers - I'll try and get onto this at the weekend. I was going to charge the battery over night first, and follow the ElectroSport flowchart. Do you think it's worth trying this with a partly discharged battery first?

My best guess at the moment is that there's a high resistance link between the reg/rec and the battery. The larger the load, the larger the voltage drop across it, and so the lower the maximum voltage the battery would be charged to.

Thanks.

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by daktulos

Do you think it's worth trying this with a partly discharged battery first?

If your charging system is functioning correctly your battery should not be partially discharged. I would check it as it is now.

Originally Posted by daktulos

My best guess at the moment is that there's a high resistance link between the reg/rec and the battery.

You must be a "glass half empty" guy, you're assuming you have a problem.
If there is a high resistance link it would most likely be at a connector. On a Street Triple it's usually the connector between the stator and the reg/rec and it can get hot enough to melt the plastic cover on the connector.

[daktulos]

Originally Posted by Seeker

You must be a "glass half empty" guy, you're assuming you have a problem.

Well, I know I have a problem - but I don't know if it's operational or design.

Hopefully I'll have time to investigate this weekend!

Thanks.

[R1ffR4ff]

Originally Posted by Grant66

I got one of these when I had battery problems, the very act of purchasing it (and possibly charging the battery properly) fixed the issues I had.

I've never used it in the 2 years since purchase...
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

I've used mine a couple of times as I've left my Steering lock on in my garage but gone too far and left the parking lights on and forgot to plug in my Step charger

I've used it a couple of times to help neighbours out

[R1ffR4ff]

Originally Posted by daktulos

Thanks for the replies.


My commute is roughly 40-55 minutes, half of that on the motorway, so would hope that's enough to keep the battery topped up. The battery is a year or so old, AGM (Motobatt). There's power for EVs at work, but nothing near the motorcycle bays.



Yes, I know. I also need to check the terminals on the Motobatt haven't vibrated loose. I'll hopefully be able to check some of it this weekend.

300W sounds like there's plenty of headroom, but I have no idea how much power the ignition takes, reg/rec efficiency, or losses in the wiring, etc.



I know this makes sense, but I'm trying to avoid it if possible, mostly because I'd end up with two flat batteries!



That's my backstop plan - wire in a connector and keep a LiIon starter on standby. If this is only a problem in the winter, it would be acceptable. I will check the electrics first, though.

I have a MotoBatt AGM and you have to make sure the pole Allen bolts are secure.I didn't check one time when I had the Battery off after replacing my R/R and one was loose and I had similar to you.As soon as I secured it no problems.

[daktulos]

Well, that's interesting. I know more, but still don't have an answer.

Firstly, at the battery - after yesterday's ride which finished with the bike staring pretty normally.

Off - 12.67V - so something like 85% charged.
Idling(ish) - 13.5V
Idling(ish) + lights - 13.2V
Idling(ish) + lights + grips - 13.1V
5000rpm - 13.4V
5000rpm + lights - 12.5V
5000rpm + lights + grips - 12.3V

So, if this is right, the battery would likely discharge on the motorway to around 70%. Even without the grips, it's not great.

I ran through the full ElectroSport diagnostic flowchart, and there were no problems anywhere. Voltage at the R/R (don't compare with above as this was later and I had the choke out above):

Idling - 14.1V
5000rpm - 13.5V

So, it looks like there are two separate factors:

1. The voltage drops with an additional load. Not unexpected, but it should be able to cope with just the headlight.

2. The voltage drops when the engine RPM increases from 1400 to 5000. This is unexpected.

Other than static tests, which are all fine, I can't test any of it in isolation. The only test I can think of (and this is my current plan) is to buy some spade connectors to measure the current being drawn from the reg/rec.

My gut feeling is that the R/R is unhappy, but can't explain it. Any ideas?

[Seeker]

Originally Posted by daktulos

The only test I can think of (and this is my current plan) is to buy some spade connectors to measure the current being drawn from the reg/rec.

Assuming you measure the current will you be any better off? It's going to vary depending on load but I've never seen any values written down.

Ignoring the voltage drop with increasing revs for the moment which is not that unusual if you google it, your voltages are on the low side but not by a huge amount.

You could check the stator a/c output voltage but they usually fail catastrophically. With it disconnected from r/r you'd normally be getting >70v a/c at 5k

I'd charge the battery, trace the wires (usually yellow) from the stator to make sure they're intact and clean any connectors along the way to the reg/rec. I'd disconnect the +12V plug from the r/r (red and black wires) and clean its connections. I'd clean up the battery connections not forgetting to check the negative connection to the frame.

One fairly common mod on Triumphs (and other bikes) is to rewire the dc side of the r/r using thicker cables (4mm squared) direct to the battery (with 30A fuse on the pos lead).

If none of that helps, then I agree, change the r/r.


Incidentally, Decosse on Triumphrat has written an excellent guide that will tell you how to diagnose charging issues, what type of r/r are available, which connectors are being used (to connect r/r) and where to buy them (last part not so good since he's in US): https://tinyurl.com/y5oldlfz

[daktulos]

Originally Posted by Seeker

Assuming you measure the current will you be any better off? It's going to vary depending on load but I've never seen any values written down.

It was really to see if it's anywhere close to the 300W the stator should generate.

Ignoring the voltage drop with increasing revs for the moment which is not that unusual if you google it, your voltages are on the low side but not by a huge amount.

That's good to know - what I didn't check (which I should have) was the r/r voltage at 5000rpm with the headlight on. I suspect it'll be closer to 12.5V, which is too low.

You could check the stator a/c output voltage but they usually fail catastrophically. With it disconnected from r/r you'd normally be getting >70v a/c at 5k

All around 26V idling, 95V at 5000 rpm. It looks good. It could potentially be different under load, but I can't test that.

One fairly common mod on Triumphs (and other bikes) is to rewire the dc side of the r/r using thicker cables (4mm squared) direct to the battery (with 30A fuse on the pos lead).

The voltage drop between the R/R and battery on both the +ve and -ve side was 100-150mV, although it was difficult to measure as it fluctuates so much. At the moment, it's low on my list, and would be worth re-checking first.

Incidentally, Decosse on Triumphrat has written an excellent guide that will tell you how to diagnose charging issues, what type of r/r are available, which connectors are being used (to connect r/r) and where to buy them (last part not so good since he's in US): https://tinyurl.com/y5oldlfz

Thanks, I'll take a read.

[R1ffR4ff]

Do a Diode test on the R/R.The procedure is in the manual and pull apart and clean the in-line block connectors.My Curvy had two but I've now removed them as per,

https://cx500.000webhostapp.com/Mosf...sfetUniRR.html

[embee]

Originally Posted by daktulos

Idling(ish) - 13.5V
Idling(ish) + lights - 13.2V
Idling(ish) + lights + grips - 13.1V
5000rpm - 13.4V
5000rpm + lights - 12.5V
5000rpm + lights + grips - 12.3V

…...

My gut feeling is that the R/R is unhappy, but can't explain it. Any ideas?

I think you're spot on. You should be seeing 14 point something volts when revved. At this point I'd suggest stop trying to over-analyse and simply replace the R/R.
If you feel so inclined you can use a MOSFET type, which are generally more reliable and stable, the semi-conductors have a lower volts drop across them so less heat is produced internally. I've fitted various ones from different bikes in the past, my SV has one from a Honda ATV, the Deauville has a ZX10 item. Plenty to choose from on fleabay if you are capable of doing the appropriate rewire.
You can get the correct connectors, but I used simple 1/4" spade terminals with plastic covers, the alternator wires are all the same so no issues, you just need to get the pos/neg output wires correct. Online search will identify which is which in the output socket.
The MOSFET R/Rs usually carry an "FH" ident, so FH012, FH014, FH020 etc are all potentially suitable. Shindengen is the usual name, and Eastern Beaver do various fitting kits if interested.